ATMONAUTI

[PWScottIV 0]

They're making Atmonauti out to be essentially a different or parallel sport to skydiving... It's not. It's like if some guy comes up with a new running event... It's still "track and field"... It's still running for that matter. These guys are basically saying that they found a new way to run, that's not actually running, which is completely idiotic. It's still just skydiving, and in most skydiver's opinions, it's only a specialized method of freeflying... That's not even original for that matter. These guys are acting like they just invented the wheel and they're here to show everyone how unbelievably amazing and unique it is.

Gravity Waits for No One.

[SPAWNmaster 0]

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They're making Atmonauti out to be essentially a different or parallel sport to skydiving... It's not. It's like if some guy comes up with a new running event... It's still "track and field"... It's still running for that matter. These guys are basically saying that they found a new way to run, that's not actually running, which is completely idiotic. It's still just skydiving, and in most skydiver's opinions, it's only a specialized method of freeflying... That's not even original for that matter. These guys are acting like they just invented the wheel and they're here to show everyone how unbelievably amazing and unique it is.

Even though I don't want to perpetuate the argument that this thread has become, I have to dispute what you're saying here. I see absolutely no evidence of these guys claiming atmo to be "essentially a different or parallel sport to skydiving."

To my understanding, Marco and others are saying that angled flight is a different way of flying, which after giving it a chance I agree with.

You mention that in your opinion it is a specialized method of freeflying. I completely agree with that statement as well!

Some have come to adopt the term freeflying as a way of describing body flight in general, flying in all directions on all axes in 3d in different ways (including on your belly). To the best of my understanding that also includes atmonauti, which is why I agree with you on that.

However based on the merits of it's originality such as things I have already mentioned (extremely slow free fall times, distance, 3D moves at an angle) I also believe that it has characteristics worthy of being a distinct discipline. In fact the SSA has ammended the PASA constitution to include atmonauti as an official discipline.

I don't think you can dispute atmo's originality at all, in fact. I mean look at what Gi is doing flying feet first at an angle...if that's not original I don't know what is.

[DJL 235]

This is the best thread on this website...for so many reasons.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[base_nz 0]

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However based on the merits of it's originality such as things I have already mentioned (extremely slow free fall times, distance, 3D moves at an angle) I also believe that it has characteristics worthy of being a distinct discipline. In fact the SSA has ammended the PASA constitution to include atmonauti as an official discipline.

Like ive said before......Thats all fine and dandy...... But there is a reason that a lot of people have no time for atmo...

Every thread ive read so far about this somewhere someone will make stupid comments and try to scientifically prove its a different form of flight.....Just makes me cringe!.....Its like listening to a religious fanatic who wont listen to reason!!!!


THAT is your major problem!!!.....Untill they stop how can you expect
People to take Atmo seriously....

.....And you thought Kiwis couldn't fly!!!!

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[SPAWNmaster 0]

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there is a reason that a lot of people have no time for atmo...

Not sure what you mean by this!

...


Otherwise, I agree with your other points. There is a stigma now (especially in north america) about the discipline...and it doesn't help that there are people claiming that the lift principle plays a significant role when in fact it could very well be an entirely other phenomenon. Either way I have not seen hard data that could give a definitive statement about the discipline whether you are a fanatic or skeptic.

I have a pretty decent frontmonauti going (~20 jumps) and have managed to take 2 people out with me separately, being as safe as possible considering my skill level. In both of those situations the other person was impressed with how cool it looks and how I smoked 'em in both distance and freefall time.

I digress...

It is what it is. I have fun doing it, I personally consider it a separate discipline within the scope of freeflying (within the context of vertical positions vs. belly flight vs. angled flight) and believe there is a lot of potential to get people into flying at an angle.

I do agree there is a lot of pseudoscience being thrown around by atmo advocates but I also do not see anyone throwing out other explanations as to why it works the way it does!

Like I mentioned before, I think it's great that someone is willing to go out of their way to develop a progression outline in a budding discipline. I think in SA and Italy where atmo is more popular these days, it will be helpful to promote safety with a pre-established syllabus such as the one outlined by Marco in the original post for this thread.

[VectorBoy 0]

there is a reason that a lot of people have no time for atmo...

[base_nz 0]

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there is a reason that a lot of people have no time for atmo...

What? There is always time for thee Atmo!!!

.....And you thought Kiwis couldn't fly!!!!

[VectorBoy 0]

No need to discuss, just feeeeeel it!

[likearock 2]

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The easieast way would be to get some GPS Data from atmonauti dives and show them all non-believers

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Will do...

So? Two months later and still no data? You'll have to do better than that if you want to convince us that relative wind somehow violates the rules of physics and blows at different orientations depending on your body position.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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In both of those situations the other person was impressed with how cool it looks and how I smoked 'em in both distance and freefall time.

I say I could smoke your atmonauti in my regular old track.

Maybe I can buy a can of that gravitational wind somewhere.

[PWScottIV 0]

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So? Two months later and still no data? You'll have to do better than that if you want to convince us that relative wind somehow violates the rules of physics and blows at different orientations depending on your body position.

JP already proved that Relative Gravitational Wind is real... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_Gravitational_Wind

Gravity Waits for No One.

[base_nz 0]

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I do agree there is a lot of pseudoscience being thrown around by atmo advocates but I also do not see anyone throwing out other explanations as to why it works the way it does!

Read some previous threads ...or a physics book...

.....And you thought Kiwis couldn't fly!!!!

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[JohnMitchell 16]

How about videoing some atmonauti jumps while wearing yarn tufts or small streamers, to demonstrate this "axial flow" all you are experiencing? Maybe that would convert some of us heathen non-believers. How about some hard data off of your protracks and gps's showing us your amazingly slow fall rates and breathtaking cross country distances? That would make me a true believer.

[PWScottIV 0]

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How about videoing some atmonauti jumps while wearing yarn tufts or small streamers, to demonstrate this "axial flow" all you are experiencing? Maybe that would convert some of us heathen non-believers. How about some hard data off of your protracks and gps's showing us your amazingly slow fall rates and breathtaking cross country distances? That would make me a true believer.

Yeah, apparently you didn't read the Wiki close enough: "Through numerous attempts to prove the effects of relative gravitational wind, it appears that the high density energy field generated disrupts most electronic devices, including all logging altimeters and GPS devices."

Right now we're developing a special EMF shielded GPS unit. Because the GPS antenna won't work behind the shielding material, we are planning to setup antenna relay transmitters on an array of 100 spaceballs that will float around the test astronaut. Obviously, there will also need to be 100 ball catchers, so if you're interested in being one of them, let JP know.

Gravity Waits for No One.

[Scoop 0]

Wow, there has been some real shitty comments in this thread.

Whats wrong with someone trying to nurture a new discipline? So what if it seems a bit over hyped?

Maybe in this case my lack of experience gives me a clearer, less arrogant outlook.

I personally think it looks quite exciting and a challenge to add another dimension to your flight.

Oh, and I have orange on my jumpsuit. What can I say, I like the euro look!

[base_nz 0]

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Wow, there has been some real shitty comments in this thread.

Whats wrong with someone trying to nurture a new discipline? So what if it seems a bit over hyped?

Maybe in this case my lack of experience gives me a clearer, less arrogant outlook.

I personally think it looks quite exciting and a challenge to add another dimension to your flight.

Oh, and I have orange on my jumpsuit. What can I say, I like the euro look!

Arrogance has nothing to do with it... If you can imagine someone coming into your maths class and saying 1 + 1 =3 and when you ask to see there working of the problem they tell you... o yea..... Ill get it to you in a bit...............You also need to read the wiki information to understand that the arrogance you think your seeing is just ripping the piss....

Its fun...

.....And you thought Kiwis couldn't fly!!!!

[hangdiver 1]

I believe the atmonauts are confusing gravitational wind with the magnetic lines of flux that flow between the north and south pole of the earth. Flying parallel to these lines the atmonaut surfs the magnetic waves much like a radio wave rides a carrier band wave. This could also explain why the pro track, neptune etc. can't record the correct data due to the electromagnetic interference. I suppose an atmonaut could conceivably get suspended between two waves and be in a state of suspension due to the harmonic resonance induced by the oscillation of the two parallel waves.

http://cns-alumni.bu.edu/~slehar/webstuff/hr1/hr1.html

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[JohnMitchell 16]

Ahhh, that explains their insistence on a Northbound jumprun everytime.

[Scoop 0]

The physics might be a load of shit but its still a new discipline and there is a lot of people trying to deny that.

I'm sure people took the piss the first time someone put bars on the end of their bikes wheel nuts and hopped up on a bench. People probably dismissed it as a discipline when someone decided that the spectacle of oversteer should have its own category and be called drifting. They laughed when that chap made a mistake and picked up the football and ran the pitch with it giving birth to the wonderful sport now known as rugby.

[Chubba 0]

Though I'm still confused as to what it is and how it doesn't fall under the other disciplines of skydiving?

[virgin-burner 1]

you mean, there's other things than bellyflying!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Scoop 0]

Have a look on YouTube for 'atmonauti'. There is loads of videos on there. Looking at the angles they are flying at, to me, it doesn't look like tracking, its much steeper. Its not a traditional freefly down-the-tube jump either. I think it deserves credit as a discipline in its own right.

Someone was wanting to see video of a feet first atmo jump. Thats on there too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_XZ8C7_mfw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCDDjJVMUBE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fmCBA1bNY4

[slotperfect 7]

Folks - this is the Instructors Forum. Quoting the site owner:

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Any and everyone is welcome to post here but this forum is specifically targeted at tandem, AFF and other instructors. This is a place where you can exchange ideas and share information and techniques about your specific area of instruction.

This is a topical forum and is moderated as such. That means that posts in this forum should in some way or shape specifically relate to "Instruction or Instructors". General training related questions, including those about making tandem and AFF jumps should still be posted to the Safety and Training forum. Though you're welcome to chime in, this forum targets Instructors, not everyone who use their services.

That being said, this thread needs to be put back on track. Discussing Atmonauti as a discipline (or not) and its intruction are the points here. Please save all the funny one liners for Bonfire.

Thanks.

Arrive Safely

John

[Chubba 0]

Cool videos, I like the feet first... never seen that before.

It looks like tracking, but a lot steeper... looks like fun (is any skydiving not fun?).

It still doesn't make me understand this thread though, it's absolutely baffling. It's still just flying isn't it? It seems to be a group of people that are trying to emphasise angled/tracking techniques in some weird way, but all in all... it's still just flying?

I'm all for the angled flight, the structure of "atmonauti" just seems so confronting... can't we just fly?

[JohnMitchell 16]

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Looking at the angles they are flying at, to me, it doesn't look like tracking, its much steeper. Its not a traditional freefly down-the-tube jump either. I think it deserves credit as a discipline in its own right.

They can teach whatever they want. What most of us are objecting to is the pseudo scientific, gravitational wave surf crap they are making up. IMHO, it's in between freeflying and a tracking dive, nothing more miraculous than that. I've done a little of it, it was fun; it was not a social phenomenon or a religious experience for me. Some of us feel the atmonautis are just getting a little too chuffed up about it all.