camamel 0 #51 March 5, 2008 I can't even say that I'm looking for French instructors on the French forum. The only way is to put an add in English witch doesn't work at all. So I really don't understand why DZ.COM let you advertised like that for your own business, because what ever you say this is what you're doing. I have a Freak Brother card and a number that was issue to me back in the mid 70's,should I consider that a rating! If some one is walking on very thin ice ,in your case I think you should start thinking about swimming!!! Nothing new Waste of timeWhen you think you're good...this is when you become dangerous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeremy_o 0 #52 March 6, 2008 Sweet tracking technique. I might try it. http://planetskydive.net/ - An online aggregation of skydiver's blogs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mciocca 0 #53 March 6, 2008 ***So I really don't understand why DZ.COM let you advertised like that for your own business, because what ever you say this is what you're doing. QuoteWhich business are you referring to...Atmo? Atmo is available to everyone, its public domain, for anyone who'd like to try it, and the posted guidlines are for the safe governing of atmo by instructors at DZ's around the world. Add value to this forum by asking questions, adding constructive criticism, etc. Dissing atmo does nothing for you or the members on this forum.The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Fledgling 0 #54 March 7, 2008 90mph still doesn't sound that impressive. Good trackers can easily achieve that as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mciocca 0 #55 March 7, 2008 *** 90mph still doesn't sound that impressive. Good trackers can easily achieve that as well. Quote It is when you consider that at those speeds atmonauts are flying on "half brakes" and taking docks and flying large formations. As mentioned, it is also common that in these jumps lower speeds are recorded in sections of the skydive, from 75 - 85 mph - again flying intermediated body positions and taking docks etc. If you consider the RW aspect of whats going on here and compare it to 120 - 140mph in FS RW and 150 - 200mph in FF RW its pretty good I'd say The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ozzy13 0 #56 March 7, 2008 why a discussion on this is still going on im not sure. If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck . Well I guess its TRACKING :)Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mciocca 0 #57 March 8, 2008 *** why a discussion on this is still going on im not sure Quote The reason is its guys like you that badmouth atmo and give us an opportunity to respond with informative discussion. DZ.com members seem to want to know more and learn, and the approach you're taking just gives us the ammunition we need to respond with detailed info/pics etc. Keep up the hard work The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ozzy13 0 #58 March 9, 2008 Quote *** why a discussion on this is still going on im not sure Quote The reason is its guys like you that badmouth atmo and give us an opportunity to respond with informative discussion. DZ.com members seem to want to know more and learn, and the approach you're taking just gives us the ammunition we need to respond with detailed info/pics etc. Keep up the hard work Listen buddy Im not bad mouthing anything so do not accuse me of that. I looked at what you said and check out your web site and IT LOOKS LIKE TRACKING TO ME. So if you have a problem with that I dont know what to tell you. Its Tracking so why not just call it that.Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peggs82 0 #59 March 9, 2008 I'm sorry, I really would like to believe these numbers you post about sub-90's sustained free fall. I really would. Post the video, and let us do some math, and I will gladly eat my words. There is no sarcasm here, I really will. But by that logic, should I, as a wingsuiter, make my AoA steeper and thus fly for 25 minutes?? In no way am I bashing Atmo here either. I've done it and it is quite fun! But lets not act like we're re-inventing the wheel here. I can do the exact same formations and docks in a tracking dive as I can in Atmo... 3d formations are not impossible in the slightest... Allow me to coin a term (maybe I should make a wiki article about it)...Burble Management... Put the lower persons head around my chest and WALLA! No Burble!! Now due to the steeper angle of flight, burbles are less present, thus easier to deal with, but they are still there...and still dangerous to those who are un-aware of them. But I digress... If you are trying to make Atmo more accessible to people who are bound by rules (ie. SA), why not just call this a tracking dive? By calling it a new discipline that must be sanctioned, aren't you just adding to the bureaucracy? Steep track, nuff said :) ps...while you're posting the sub 90's vid...post the feet first flying. I really would like to see that as it sounds very cool Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #60 March 9, 2008 Quotelooks like tracking to me :) Tracking as a term simply means moving (translating) from one position to another on a horizontal axis. so from that stand point yes it is tracking. However, take your flat traking self up on an Atmo jump and see if you can stay with them. If you have not been on or seen a good atmo jump you have nothing to compare it to. We have here in Oz some excelent trackers and atmo fliers, they regularly get formation atmos running and turn points doing it. It is a fair bit different to flat trackingYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #61 March 10, 2008 QuoteQuotelooks like tracking to me :) Tracking as a term simply means moving (translating) from one position to another on a horizontal axis. so from that stand point yes it is tracking. However, take your flat traking self up on an Atmo jump and see if you can stay with them. ... It is a fair bit different to flat tracking I'd like to see some ACTUAL DATA (say from GPS) to support this. PS In my regular RW suit I can sustain 80mph vertical speed in a track according to my alti-track and pro-track both.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mciocca 0 #62 March 10, 2008 Do these look like tracking jumps to you? In atmo the whole experience and training is specific to using the body as an airfoil, which free's the arms and legs to take docks and transition mid flight from frontmonauti to backmonauti to footmonauti with docks in between each move, carving around formations in midflight etc. This is completely unlike tracking. Here are also some training pics feet first atmo, I will get hold of some of our training jumps with spocks and post them. The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #63 March 10, 2008 QuoteDo these look like tracking jumps to you? Um, yeah, they do. Really good tracking dives with some obviously highly talented skydivers, but they look exactly like tracking dives to me. Nobody on here is saying that you guys aren't doing something really cool. I think most people here have gone out of their way to stress that it looks like fun and involves some really talented folks, but it doesn't seem to be the revolution that you insist it is. You're not going to convince anyone that atmo is a new discipline that some guy "invented" by saying it over and over. In my opinion, your pictures do more to hurt your case than help it. By the way, there is no slam to atmo in this post, so please don't reply with an accusation of such. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilotdave 0 #64 March 10, 2008 QuoteIn atmo the whole experience and training is specific to using the body as an airfoil, which free's the arms and legs to take docks How's that different from tracking exactly? I've done tracking dives with my arms out front, like superman. Won't work for a good flat track, but on a steeper tracking dive it works fine. I was able to grab a ribbon on the leader's foot. The whole "we make our bodies into an airfoil, so we generate lift" is a very flawed concept. At the right angle of attack, your body can make some amount of lift in damn near any shape. Your airfoil idea sort of falls apart when you admit that you don't fall at the same angle your body makes with the horizon, but you actually fall considerably steeper (giving you a positive angle of attack). Even a positive camber airfoil can generate lift when a plane is flying upside down... just takes some extra angle of attack. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mciocca 0 #65 March 10, 2008 Dan, no prob bro I wasnt gonna get pissed at you for saying its still tracking. You know we're gonna keep disagreeing ;o), though ultimately its a truly awesome way to skydive and it can be incorporated into freeflying or wingsuiting hybrids, and its a sensation to be truly enjoyed! So I say, lets find a way to jump together sometime and we can argue the point over a beer at sunset. The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mciocca 0 #66 March 10, 2008 Well, Im proposing its different from tracking in that the body shape, the set up ahead of the lower atmonaut, the fact that one looks to the rear and not the front and curves the body in search of the airfoil shape in all body positions, the relative wind direction, the fact that experienced trackers ALWAYS fall behind and below (come along and you'll see for yourself), the ability to do 3d moves and transitions - all this all done far more efficiently when using the relative wind from the head towards the feet (as in head down) and not in the face and chest (as in tracking) with an inverted wing shape, the moves are so more precise, and one is not limited to using arms and legs to create drag (as in tracking.. ;0) but rather, since the body is doing all the work (and its very perceptible in the sky) it allows for utter freedom (as with head down, where we search direction and proximity with the head and use the arms and legs in a relaxed manner to take docks and control freefall speed etc). From this point of view, when comparing the sensation of atmo vs tracking to head down, atmo feels identical due to the relative wind striking the head first and the arms and legs as you would experience in head down. It is in effect a head down form, but at an angle, using whatever lift is available to maintain the relative wind from the crest of the head along the body towards the feet. When learning atmo, it is truly amazing to go from track to atmo, and the change in sensation is dramatic. You have to try it (correctly, possibly with a coach/instructor first) to truly appreciate it.The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #67 March 10, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuotelooks like tracking to me :) Tracking as a term simply means moving (translating) from one position to another on a horizontal axis. so from that stand point yes it is tracking. However, take your flat traking self up on an Atmo jump and see if you can stay with them. ... It is a fair bit different to flat tracking I'd like to see some ACTUAL DATA (say from GPS) to support this. PS In my regular RW suit I can sustain 80mph vertical speed in a track according to my alti-track and pro-track both. Good for you DrJohn, seem you have a good life saving kinda Track going on there. Can you turn points and take docks while doing it?You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #68 March 11, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotelooks like tracking to me :) Tracking as a term simply means moving (translating) from one position to another on a horizontal axis. so from that stand point yes it is tracking. However, take your flat traking self up on an Atmo jump and see if you can stay with them. ... It is a fair bit different to flat tracking I'd like to see some ACTUAL DATA (say from GPS) to support this. PS In my regular RW suit I can sustain 80mph vertical speed in a track according to my alti-track and pro-track both. Good for you DrJohn, seem you have a good life saving kinda Track going on there. Can you turn points and take docks while doing it? Never tried turning points. I have docked although I find there are not all that many people who fall as slow as I do.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilotdave 0 #69 March 11, 2008 Ok, whats the shallowest angle you can actually fly in atmonauti? In other words, how many degrees below the horizon can you actually get your trajectory to point, not just the angle of your body? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mciocca 0 #70 March 11, 2008 *** Ok, whats the shallowest angle you can actually fly in atmonauti? In other words, how many degrees below the horizon can you actually get your trajectory to point, not just the angle of your body? QuoteHeres the thing...The idea is pretty much to hang around the 35 - 55 degrees with 45 degrees being the optimum - but it depends on the amount of drag being presented and size/shape of the atmonaut i.e with docks etc which present a fair bit of drag 45 degrees is kinda where you want to be). On no contact low drag jumps with greater forward speed shallower (and steeper just cause its fun ;0) angles are common. Atmo -as with modern day canopies - can be flown steeper and shallower as required. In canopy flying the angle of attack/incidence is set to optimum for general flying, but getting on the front risers causes the canopy to surge forward/dive and gather speed, where after getting on rears (flatter flight path relative to ground) causes the canopy to swoop. HOWEVER, as we all know swooping is not indefinite as the forward speed gradually decreases causing the "wing" to eventually stall. Its the same for atmo, when diving (taking up steeper angles - usually to come down to a formation, flying in excess of 45 degrees) and then flattening out (35- 10 degrees) the increased airspeed over the "wing" allows for a "swoop" where for a period of time one can comfortable fly at 10 - 20 degrees, but where gradually the flight path becomes stalled (entering freefall). In the sky when this happens its very clear as you can clearly feel the relative wind changing from the head more towads the chest, and one begins to fall behind and below the more "efficient" formation. The beauty of atmo is that all angles are possible, however certain angles are just that much more efficient, and allow for a "cleaner" fluid of air over the crest of the head. In ending, the whole idea of atmo is to search for the sensation of the most efficient angle/speed that produces the relative wind from head to feet, while retaining freedom of movement with arms and legs for docks transitions etc. Thus, there is no one perfect degree of flight, but rather it is a dynamic use of all the angles during the skydive that allow for proximate flight with your mates. So to answer your question in short: Shallow angles such as 10 degrees can be flown, however inefficient they may be after a short while, with the emphasis on more angle (i.e. 45 degrees).The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vpozzoli 0 #71 March 11, 2008 Quote Its Tracking so why not just call it that. Yeah, but where's the money in that? Ciao, Vale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peek 21 #72 March 11, 2008 QuoteDo these look like tracking jumps to you? They look like freefly/formation jumps to me.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mciocca 0 #73 March 11, 2008 ***They look like freefly/formation jumps to me.... Quote I agree, but at an angle and MUCH slower... The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freefli 2 #74 March 13, 2008 yes neato pics. This pics do prove a point In America, we call it tracking. In Europe, you call it atmonauti. In Europe, you might dip a knee, but not always by looking at the pics. some of these threads bash it only because you guys make such a fuss over it, it's so lame. I think even the godfather, JP will admit how stupid this all is. Back away from the computer and sew more orange on those jumpsuits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot1 0 #75 March 13, 2008 Quote I think even the godfather, JP I just spit soda all over my laptop from laughing so hard.Then I looked at the Wiki page for this and laughed even hard!www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 3 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Fledgling 0 #54 March 7, 2008 90mph still doesn't sound that impressive. Good trackers can easily achieve that as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mciocca 0 #55 March 7, 2008 *** 90mph still doesn't sound that impressive. Good trackers can easily achieve that as well. Quote It is when you consider that at those speeds atmonauts are flying on "half brakes" and taking docks and flying large formations. As mentioned, it is also common that in these jumps lower speeds are recorded in sections of the skydive, from 75 - 85 mph - again flying intermediated body positions and taking docks etc. If you consider the RW aspect of whats going on here and compare it to 120 - 140mph in FS RW and 150 - 200mph in FF RW its pretty good I'd say The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #56 March 7, 2008 why a discussion on this is still going on im not sure. If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck . Well I guess its TRACKING :)Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mciocca 0 #57 March 8, 2008 *** why a discussion on this is still going on im not sure Quote The reason is its guys like you that badmouth atmo and give us an opportunity to respond with informative discussion. DZ.com members seem to want to know more and learn, and the approach you're taking just gives us the ammunition we need to respond with detailed info/pics etc. Keep up the hard work The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #58 March 9, 2008 Quote *** why a discussion on this is still going on im not sure Quote The reason is its guys like you that badmouth atmo and give us an opportunity to respond with informative discussion. DZ.com members seem to want to know more and learn, and the approach you're taking just gives us the ammunition we need to respond with detailed info/pics etc. Keep up the hard work Listen buddy Im not bad mouthing anything so do not accuse me of that. I looked at what you said and check out your web site and IT LOOKS LIKE TRACKING TO ME. So if you have a problem with that I dont know what to tell you. Its Tracking so why not just call it that.Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peggs82 0 #59 March 9, 2008 I'm sorry, I really would like to believe these numbers you post about sub-90's sustained free fall. I really would. Post the video, and let us do some math, and I will gladly eat my words. There is no sarcasm here, I really will. But by that logic, should I, as a wingsuiter, make my AoA steeper and thus fly for 25 minutes?? In no way am I bashing Atmo here either. I've done it and it is quite fun! But lets not act like we're re-inventing the wheel here. I can do the exact same formations and docks in a tracking dive as I can in Atmo... 3d formations are not impossible in the slightest... Allow me to coin a term (maybe I should make a wiki article about it)...Burble Management... Put the lower persons head around my chest and WALLA! No Burble!! Now due to the steeper angle of flight, burbles are less present, thus easier to deal with, but they are still there...and still dangerous to those who are un-aware of them. But I digress... If you are trying to make Atmo more accessible to people who are bound by rules (ie. SA), why not just call this a tracking dive? By calling it a new discipline that must be sanctioned, aren't you just adding to the bureaucracy? Steep track, nuff said :) ps...while you're posting the sub 90's vid...post the feet first flying. I really would like to see that as it sounds very cool Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #60 March 9, 2008 Quotelooks like tracking to me :) Tracking as a term simply means moving (translating) from one position to another on a horizontal axis. so from that stand point yes it is tracking. However, take your flat traking self up on an Atmo jump and see if you can stay with them. If you have not been on or seen a good atmo jump you have nothing to compare it to. We have here in Oz some excelent trackers and atmo fliers, they regularly get formation atmos running and turn points doing it. It is a fair bit different to flat trackingYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #61 March 10, 2008 QuoteQuotelooks like tracking to me :) Tracking as a term simply means moving (translating) from one position to another on a horizontal axis. so from that stand point yes it is tracking. However, take your flat traking self up on an Atmo jump and see if you can stay with them. ... It is a fair bit different to flat tracking I'd like to see some ACTUAL DATA (say from GPS) to support this. PS In my regular RW suit I can sustain 80mph vertical speed in a track according to my alti-track and pro-track both.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mciocca 0 #62 March 10, 2008 Do these look like tracking jumps to you? In atmo the whole experience and training is specific to using the body as an airfoil, which free's the arms and legs to take docks and transition mid flight from frontmonauti to backmonauti to footmonauti with docks in between each move, carving around formations in midflight etc. This is completely unlike tracking. Here are also some training pics feet first atmo, I will get hold of some of our training jumps with spocks and post them. The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #63 March 10, 2008 QuoteDo these look like tracking jumps to you? Um, yeah, they do. Really good tracking dives with some obviously highly talented skydivers, but they look exactly like tracking dives to me. Nobody on here is saying that you guys aren't doing something really cool. I think most people here have gone out of their way to stress that it looks like fun and involves some really talented folks, but it doesn't seem to be the revolution that you insist it is. You're not going to convince anyone that atmo is a new discipline that some guy "invented" by saying it over and over. In my opinion, your pictures do more to hurt your case than help it. By the way, there is no slam to atmo in this post, so please don't reply with an accusation of such. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #64 March 10, 2008 QuoteIn atmo the whole experience and training is specific to using the body as an airfoil, which free's the arms and legs to take docks How's that different from tracking exactly? I've done tracking dives with my arms out front, like superman. Won't work for a good flat track, but on a steeper tracking dive it works fine. I was able to grab a ribbon on the leader's foot. The whole "we make our bodies into an airfoil, so we generate lift" is a very flawed concept. At the right angle of attack, your body can make some amount of lift in damn near any shape. Your airfoil idea sort of falls apart when you admit that you don't fall at the same angle your body makes with the horizon, but you actually fall considerably steeper (giving you a positive angle of attack). Even a positive camber airfoil can generate lift when a plane is flying upside down... just takes some extra angle of attack. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mciocca 0 #65 March 10, 2008 Dan, no prob bro I wasnt gonna get pissed at you for saying its still tracking. You know we're gonna keep disagreeing ;o), though ultimately its a truly awesome way to skydive and it can be incorporated into freeflying or wingsuiting hybrids, and its a sensation to be truly enjoyed! So I say, lets find a way to jump together sometime and we can argue the point over a beer at sunset. The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mciocca 0 #66 March 10, 2008 Well, Im proposing its different from tracking in that the body shape, the set up ahead of the lower atmonaut, the fact that one looks to the rear and not the front and curves the body in search of the airfoil shape in all body positions, the relative wind direction, the fact that experienced trackers ALWAYS fall behind and below (come along and you'll see for yourself), the ability to do 3d moves and transitions - all this all done far more efficiently when using the relative wind from the head towards the feet (as in head down) and not in the face and chest (as in tracking) with an inverted wing shape, the moves are so more precise, and one is not limited to using arms and legs to create drag (as in tracking.. ;0) but rather, since the body is doing all the work (and its very perceptible in the sky) it allows for utter freedom (as with head down, where we search direction and proximity with the head and use the arms and legs in a relaxed manner to take docks and control freefall speed etc). From this point of view, when comparing the sensation of atmo vs tracking to head down, atmo feels identical due to the relative wind striking the head first and the arms and legs as you would experience in head down. It is in effect a head down form, but at an angle, using whatever lift is available to maintain the relative wind from the crest of the head along the body towards the feet. When learning atmo, it is truly amazing to go from track to atmo, and the change in sensation is dramatic. You have to try it (correctly, possibly with a coach/instructor first) to truly appreciate it.The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #67 March 10, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuotelooks like tracking to me :) Tracking as a term simply means moving (translating) from one position to another on a horizontal axis. so from that stand point yes it is tracking. However, take your flat traking self up on an Atmo jump and see if you can stay with them. ... It is a fair bit different to flat tracking I'd like to see some ACTUAL DATA (say from GPS) to support this. PS In my regular RW suit I can sustain 80mph vertical speed in a track according to my alti-track and pro-track both. Good for you DrJohn, seem you have a good life saving kinda Track going on there. Can you turn points and take docks while doing it?You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #68 March 11, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotelooks like tracking to me :) Tracking as a term simply means moving (translating) from one position to another on a horizontal axis. so from that stand point yes it is tracking. However, take your flat traking self up on an Atmo jump and see if you can stay with them. ... It is a fair bit different to flat tracking I'd like to see some ACTUAL DATA (say from GPS) to support this. PS In my regular RW suit I can sustain 80mph vertical speed in a track according to my alti-track and pro-track both. Good for you DrJohn, seem you have a good life saving kinda Track going on there. Can you turn points and take docks while doing it? Never tried turning points. I have docked although I find there are not all that many people who fall as slow as I do.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #69 March 11, 2008 Ok, whats the shallowest angle you can actually fly in atmonauti? In other words, how many degrees below the horizon can you actually get your trajectory to point, not just the angle of your body? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mciocca 0 #70 March 11, 2008 *** Ok, whats the shallowest angle you can actually fly in atmonauti? In other words, how many degrees below the horizon can you actually get your trajectory to point, not just the angle of your body? QuoteHeres the thing...The idea is pretty much to hang around the 35 - 55 degrees with 45 degrees being the optimum - but it depends on the amount of drag being presented and size/shape of the atmonaut i.e with docks etc which present a fair bit of drag 45 degrees is kinda where you want to be). On no contact low drag jumps with greater forward speed shallower (and steeper just cause its fun ;0) angles are common. Atmo -as with modern day canopies - can be flown steeper and shallower as required. In canopy flying the angle of attack/incidence is set to optimum for general flying, but getting on the front risers causes the canopy to surge forward/dive and gather speed, where after getting on rears (flatter flight path relative to ground) causes the canopy to swoop. HOWEVER, as we all know swooping is not indefinite as the forward speed gradually decreases causing the "wing" to eventually stall. Its the same for atmo, when diving (taking up steeper angles - usually to come down to a formation, flying in excess of 45 degrees) and then flattening out (35- 10 degrees) the increased airspeed over the "wing" allows for a "swoop" where for a period of time one can comfortable fly at 10 - 20 degrees, but where gradually the flight path becomes stalled (entering freefall). In the sky when this happens its very clear as you can clearly feel the relative wind changing from the head more towads the chest, and one begins to fall behind and below the more "efficient" formation. The beauty of atmo is that all angles are possible, however certain angles are just that much more efficient, and allow for a "cleaner" fluid of air over the crest of the head. In ending, the whole idea of atmo is to search for the sensation of the most efficient angle/speed that produces the relative wind from head to feet, while retaining freedom of movement with arms and legs for docks transitions etc. Thus, there is no one perfect degree of flight, but rather it is a dynamic use of all the angles during the skydive that allow for proximate flight with your mates. So to answer your question in short: Shallow angles such as 10 degrees can be flown, however inefficient they may be after a short while, with the emphasis on more angle (i.e. 45 degrees).The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vpozzoli 0 #71 March 11, 2008 Quote Its Tracking so why not just call it that. Yeah, but where's the money in that? Ciao, Vale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peek 21 #72 March 11, 2008 QuoteDo these look like tracking jumps to you? They look like freefly/formation jumps to me.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mciocca 0 #73 March 11, 2008 ***They look like freefly/formation jumps to me.... Quote I agree, but at an angle and MUCH slower... The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freefli 2 #74 March 13, 2008 yes neato pics. This pics do prove a point In America, we call it tracking. In Europe, you call it atmonauti. In Europe, you might dip a knee, but not always by looking at the pics. some of these threads bash it only because you guys make such a fuss over it, it's so lame. I think even the godfather, JP will admit how stupid this all is. Back away from the computer and sew more orange on those jumpsuits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot1 0 #75 March 13, 2008 Quote I think even the godfather, JP I just spit soda all over my laptop from laughing so hard.Then I looked at the Wiki page for this and laughed even hard!www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 3 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
vpozzoli 0 #71 March 11, 2008 Quote Its Tracking so why not just call it that. Yeah, but where's the money in that? Ciao, Vale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 21 #72 March 11, 2008 QuoteDo these look like tracking jumps to you? They look like freefly/formation jumps to me.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mciocca 0 #73 March 11, 2008 ***They look like freefly/formation jumps to me.... Quote I agree, but at an angle and MUCH slower... The Sky's Our Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefli 2 #74 March 13, 2008 yes neato pics. This pics do prove a point In America, we call it tracking. In Europe, you call it atmonauti. In Europe, you might dip a knee, but not always by looking at the pics. some of these threads bash it only because you guys make such a fuss over it, it's so lame. I think even the godfather, JP will admit how stupid this all is. Back away from the computer and sew more orange on those jumpsuits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #75 March 13, 2008 Quote I think even the godfather, JP I just spit soda all over my laptop from laughing so hard.Then I looked at the Wiki page for this and laughed even hard!www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
