Strong passenger harness y-mod problem.

[rhys 0]

Hi all,
i am jumping at a strong DZ art presnt. the hrness i usually use is an older one but there are a couple with the Y mod.

i have found thast the Y-mod inhibits the customers from lifting thier legs for landing. This is the case for small light people as well as larger people. I have tried leaving the y-strap loose but it seems to be the length between the legstraps that is inhibiting the leg movement.

I am wondering if any others have found the same problem?

I also wonder if the modification will contribute to more landing injuries.

I would prefer not to use the harnesses with the Y strap at the moment for this reason.

Also articulated passenger harnesses are not available from strong anymore....?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[feuergnom 28]

the y-mod definitely changes the way pax "sit" in the harness and yes, it also changes the way they can lift their legs. this is exactly what this modification was designed for - to make it impossible that the bum of the pax goes as low as with vector based gears ever again



personally i like the old, "y-mod-less" version better, not that this matters anyway

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[rhys 0]

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this is exactly what this modification was designed for - to make it impossible that the bum of the pax goes as low as with vector based gears ever again

Vector harness's are not only more comfortable but alot safer in my opinion.

Strong harnesses work to the extent where they hold the customer to the tandem pair but comfort has nothing to do with the design.

falling out is what happens when instructors do not use the system properly, similar to out of sequence emergency procedures and low turn on landing.

The y mod only seems to create more of a problem than it fixes.

Maybe I am not using them properly? but as far as I can see the older 'y-mod-less' harnesses allow more movement of the legs and therefore are safer.

It takes a very good canopy pilot to land a passenger safely when they find it impossible to lift their legs.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[flipper 0]

I also wonder if the modification will contribute to more landing injuries.

Yes it will ...

Just got a new harness with the mod ... tend to leave it as loose as possible ...

[Para5-0 0]

"falling out is what happens when instructors do not use the system properly"

100% true. If the harness is adjusted properly it will work without incident. The mod was added to make you feel good.
I have heard it reffered to as the Y not modification.
Special Needs Tandems are a different story.

[feuergnom 28]

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It takes a very good canopy pilot to land a passenger safely when they find it impossible to lift their legs.

yeah, no more buttsliding landings ever again
on a more seriuos note: the y-mod is a fix for a problem that wouldn't exist if it wasn't for sloppy "meat haulers"

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[tkhayes 348]

we are not having much trouble with the Y harness - we leave it looser, but we also get the student sat back in the harness after opening by getting them to hike their legs up and wiggle their butt back. that ultimately makes it easier for them to lift their legs for landing,

It will also depend on the distance from the center back pad to the lumbar strap, as well as the distance from that to the legstraps, depending on how you fit the harness to your passenger.

Again, if it is used 'correctly' it is not much of a change - and even if you loosen it all the way, the student still cannot fall out of the harness, assuming you use the rest of the harness 'correctly'

[Schoenauer 0]

I don't know how you fit the harness on your students but the last thing I adjust is the y mod, and all I did was take most of the slack out of it.

I know everyone has an opinion/their practice on how to fit the Strong student harness but what I see too much of is the leg straps are over tight making it more difficult for the student to perform the sit back drill under canopy.

An other thing I see that adds to a students discomfort and immobility are caused by the instructor who makes an adjustment to the student harness while the student is sitting on the airplane. Why it that? The student’s harness should be properly fitted to the student and checked ready to skydive while standing, before boarding the airplane. As far as an adjustment had to be made because the harness loosened during the flight to altitude then that should be a signal that its time to replace the harness.


Also articulated passenger harnesses are not available from strong anymore....? ***

If this is true then it’s about time it didn't help with the students comfort while under canopy.

Memento Mori

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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yeah, no more buttsliding landings ever again
on a more seriuos note: the y-mod is a fix for a problem that wouldn't exist if it wasn't for sloppy "meat haulers"

I did about 200 butt sliding landings on y-mod gear. I didn't have a problem with the newer harnesses. A bit more difficult with the older ones, especially with larger passengers. I try to use the older harnesses for skinny types only.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I know everyone has an opinion/their practice on how to fit the Strong student harness but what I see too much of is the leg straps are over tight making it more difficult for the student to perform the sit back drill under canopy.

Well, everyone shouldn't have an opinion/practice; the instructions are in the manual and on the website.

[DualHawk 0]

Hi Rhys,

I am in an internet cafe in Ecuador at the moment so I don´t really have the time to answer your questions in detail, I will reply again early next week when I get back to Orlando.

Best Regards,

Tom Noonan
Tandem Director
Strong Enterprises

[Schoenauer 0]

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Well, everyone shouldn't have an opinion/practice; the instructions are in the manual and on the website.

I agree, instructors are supposed to fallow the manufactures SOP, however I am not seeing everyone fallow them.

Memento Mori

[rhys 0]

Hi Tom,

We just had a couple of new systems arrive yesterday, I used the new harness's and they are better. the lengths of diagonal webbing on the Y strap are now longer and therefore allow more movement.

it seems the problem has been identified, but we still have 2 of the older harnesses with the Y mod. I dislike using them and refuse to use them if the customer is big in the thighs.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[riggerrob 643]

Allow me to correct your sentence ....
"I dislike .... them and refuse ...if the customer is big in the thighs.

[DualHawk 0]

Hi Rhys,

Sorry for the delay, out of town longer than originally planned. Yes, your correct, we lengthened the Y Mod relatively soon after the initial version was implemented.

As for any older ones in circulation, we have the Y-Mod installation instructions with the new lengths online at www.strongparachutes.com.

Best regards,

Tom Noonan
Tandem Director
Strong Enterprises

[riggerrob 643]

The latest word from Strong Ent. is that you can leave the Y-strap slack.
This makes it easier for students to lift their knees just before landing.
If you adjusted all the other straps correctly, the Y-strap should never be loaded.

[AggieDave 6]

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If you adjusted all the other straps correctly, the Y-strap should never be loaded.

If you adjust all the other straps correctly, the Y-strap should never be needed.

It was a knee jerk reaction to a training issue, not a design issue, IMO.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AdD 1]

I gotta disagree with you there AggieDave, I feel a lot better using the Y mod harness with pear-shaped ppl.

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[diablopilot 2]

I think Aggie's point (and mine as well) is that if you NEED the Y mod for pear shaped students, they shouldn't be jumping.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[rhys 0]

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If you adjusted all the other straps correctly, the Y-strap should never be loaded.

This is not true, the staps become loaded when the passenger trys to lift thier legs. For skinny people it is not so much of an issue but for those with larger thighs the amount of webbing between the legstraps is not long enough for them to freely lift thier legs.

Now the length has been made longer, it is not as much of an issue. The earlier y straps however really inhibited the customer when lifting thier legs.

Strong Enterprises has identified the problem and rectified it.

look on thier website for the recommended alterations to the effected harness's

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix