tonyhays 86 #26 July 23, 2008 hmmmm....perhaps the saying is true..."friends don't let friends jump strongs...."“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #27 July 23, 2008 Quote I'm glad that you and the other guys like the system. Personally I will never jump one again. Hey thats cool. Not everyone likes the same canopies, rigs ,helmets, etc in skydiving so why should it be any different when it comes to tandem rigs? Bottom line, all of them are as relatively safe as can be expected (I know, I know... insert comment about Strong here)and everyone is going to have their personal likes and dislikes. When I bought mine, the money wasn't a deciding factor in which one I went with. I chose the one I did because it was the one I liked the best out of all of them for my own personal reasons. I am still happy with that decision to this day."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #28 July 23, 2008 Quote I chose the one I did because it was the one I liked the best out of all of them for my own personal reasons. What were the personal reasons that factored into your decision? ...if they aren't too personal to share... Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #29 July 23, 2008 Quotehmmmm....perhaps the saying is true..."friends don't let friends jump strongs...." As much as that saying is a bit of a laugh, the system does work, I prefer sigma overall but prefer strong over vector 2. The strong system works well for the instructor, the passenger harness is uncomfortable but functional, but the Set canopies are hopeless and dangerous. Why don't they put crossports and a larger slider on them? I cant figure it out, that would make them much better and safer."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #30 July 23, 2008 Quote Quote I chose the one I did because it was the one I liked the best out of all of them for my own personal reasons. What were the personal reasons that factored into your decision? ...if they aren't too personal to share... Dave Well for starters I was able to get a custom made rig to my specs in 6 weeks from the time I placed the order to delivery, set up and ready to jump right out of the box. Out of all the other systems out there it doesn't feel like I'm wearing a tandem rig and it's actually comfortable. I think the Racer passenger harness is one of the best designed harnesses out there. I also happen to like the way the laterals work in conjunction with the drogue set to keep the passenger closer to the TM. My system total weight with a Firebolt 350 main and 400 R is well under 50 lbs. I jump big bulky/heavy rigs at work all the time, the last thing I want to do is own one. I don't have crystal balls, dingle berries or any other combination of things to pull in order to get a reserve over my head. Closing the container is straight forward compared to other tandem systems. For a tandem canopy, the Firebolt is a dream. It's an overall easy canopy to fly and actually fun to be under. When other TMs are having to slide it in on low/no wind days it wasn't unheard of to see SM1 or myself coming to complete stops and doing tip toe landings. Most importantly, having talked to all the other mfgrs about training and purchasing a rig, Jump Shack gave me the Customer service and attention that I thought was warranted for someone who was spending a considerable amount of their personal money. I won't lie, it also didn't hurt that the price tag was attractive compared to the other systems I would even consider purchasing. These are just a few of the reasons why I made the choice that I did over others. Of course there are others who may disagree with some or all of what I said. If any of you fall into that category I suggest you write what you disagree with along with your rebuttal down on a piece of paper.....and eat it cause I don't want to hear it. "It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 28 #31 July 23, 2008 Quotethe passenger harness is uncomfortable but functional if you compare pax harnesses from UPT and Strong you will come to realise that with the invention of the sigma booth changed the design of the harneses to strongs (added backstrap & bellyband). so basically they are identical.The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #32 July 23, 2008 Except for the fact that the strong harnesses slip. And they're atached to a strong. But yeah, the same. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 28 #33 July 23, 2008 the latest edition of strong harnesses uses different hardware, these ones won't slip under any circumstances The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #34 July 23, 2008 We had a strong tandem instructor bring a rig onto my dz a while ago for a comercial shoot (he was only strong rated) and he took a sigma rated instructor up on a jump, and when they landed she swore she would never go up in that harness again. I didnt jump it, but she swears its not the same, as far as comfort that is. The harness was brand new. He also laughed at how we all looked at him like a leper for having a strong. After sitting down with him and looking at both rigs side to side, he is now scared of his strong and no longer wants to jump it and wants his sigma rating. A bit overstated, but was very impressed with the sigma and its superior design and functionality. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sky301 0 #35 July 23, 2008 Sigma with an Icarus 330Just Go with it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #36 July 23, 2008 QuoteSigma with an Icarus 330 That. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 28 #37 July 23, 2008 everybody is entitled to his own preferences and thats pretty cool for me. The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #38 July 24, 2008 Quoteif you compare pax harnesses from UPT and Strong you will come to realise that with the invention of the sigma booth changed the design of the harneses to strongs (added backstrap & bellyband). so basically they are identical. Just because they have a backstrap and belly band, does not make them the same. Strong harness's dig into the customers shoulders and make it difficult for larger customers to lift thier legs, the foam in the strong harnesses (instructor and customer) is shitty open cell foam that does basicly nothing, UPT harness ues closed cell foam that provodes the comfort that a harness should. UPT harnesses automaticly put the customer in an adequate landing position upon deployment and are by far a superor harness. You need to look a little closer. or ask a tandem customer that has been in both."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhays 86 #39 July 24, 2008 Microsigma with an I-330. Possibly an I-300, but they seem a bit twitchy in turbulence.“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #40 July 28, 2008 My choice: Sigma system with VR360 reserve & Sigma 370 main AAD: Cypres 2 Tandem I have 7000 + tandem jumps including 5600 sigma jumps & I'm a UPT Tandem I/E. A point to think: according to UPT & Bill B. : All UPT tandem systems are approved ONLY with the VR360 reserve & RWS / UPT tandem main canopies. From UPT website: Uninsured United Parachute Technologies VR-360 Reserve Canopies in Sigma Tuesday, 04 September 2007 We will never endorse the use of any other reserve tandem canopy than the VR-360 in the Sigma/Micro Sigma tandem system for the following reasons. The specifics of Sigma/Micro Sigma tandem operation can be affected by many components. One example; our drogues are designed to be shorter than the canopy lines so when a reserve is deployed while the drogue is attached, the Kevlar bridle will not damage the deploying reserve. This is just one of many criteria that we have. The other side of the coin is that we have no control of any other manufacturer’s product. Example; other reserves have blown up in the past from tandem terminal openings. Ours is designed to open at terminal, hence the deep brake settings. I personally know that there are some good tandem reserve canopies, but we cannot take responsibility for their products in the same way they will not do this for ours. When a change is made with regards to components, it is the responsibility of the users. Because of the nature of Tandem jumping, the tandem is perceived as a system unlike sport containers. When something goes wrong with any component we are blamed or sued Ted Strong said the same about STRONG tandem system. Both said that the tandem system is approved as a SYSTEM !!! Last time it was said by Bill & Ted was at PIA 08 in Barcelona Spain. Be Safe !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yarak 0 #41 July 28, 2008 micro sigma with icarus 330. Once again the hop isnt bad excpet in windy or turbulent conditions(which is most of the time). The sigma canopies arent bad either. Since they are made by PD it would be hard for them to suck. The openings however are a little wierd to me. The strong harness is SHIT! Its one of the worst things about the system. I'm not sure why but they are way different than the sigma's. at least %90 of all my students have complained about the harness digging into their shoulders and/or the leg straps. I also noticed a way more freuent occurence of students getting sick or light headed in the strong harness than the sigma. The strong drogue release handle placements and design are inferior as well. Those stupid buckles break. The velcro wears out. Then you have floating handles and premature openings. They require much more preventive maintenance. the bungee retention "mod" is just a ghetto fix not a "mod". Sure the strong system is functional, durable, and reasonably safe, but the system design is old, unchanged, and has basically been ignored, forgotten, and neglected by the manufacturer since its original design. Bottom line. Strong could do better but they choose not too. I also like the skyhook on the sigma. there is no doubt that the sigma will win the popular vote. Its simply the most ergonomicaly correct, safest, most comfortable system out there. If you like a system that is unrefined and finds you constantly getting puked on and consoling students by telling them to "hang in there you are almost down" Then buy a strong. Not trying to be mean but somebody else hit the nail on the head when they said strong should put more time and effort into their civilian systems. Then again it might be their plan to gradually fade out of the civilian market. It sure looks that way. NOt too mention....misroute the drouge bridle, and you get a horseshoe mal. packer binds the 3 ring and you get a drouge in tow. Basically is more complicated and less error proof to pack. And we all know how packers get when they are hot and tired.I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efs4ever 3 #42 July 29, 2008 Quote If you as a T/I were to purchase your "own" tandem rig, not one provided to you by the DZ, which brand would you purchase and why? What Main/Reserve combo would you choose for an all around 1 Rig to have for yourself? Be Nice! I've owned my own Sigma rig since October 2000. Recently I went to the factory and took delivery of a Micro Sigma with an SG 340 canopy inside. WOW. I'm the meat missle on all jumps, so I was a bit concerned about the most recent down size. (I started with an EZ 425 => SG 395 => SG 370 and finally to SG 340) I've jumped 490 pounds on it, and the flare was smooth as glass to a nice soft slide The 370 feels like a SLUG now. Russell M. Webb D 7014 Attorney at Law 713 385 5676 https://www.tdcparole.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daneaton 0 #43 July 30, 2008 I have both strong and sigma ratings and jump both but I prefer the sigma for comfort..had a cutaway on a strong do to bag lock other then that strong is a work horse.. anyone have problems getting bruises on the rt inside thigh from strong? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yarak 0 #44 July 30, 2008 unfortuneatley when I jump strongs I feel like the work horse. Its a durable rig but the sigma is as well. And yes its aways been more uncomfortable on my legs.I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitysurfer 0 #45 August 4, 2008 Sharp rig LouDiamond. Nice poptop. aloha. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdD 1 #46 August 4, 2008 I would go with a micro-sigma, precision reserve, icarus 330 and a cypres 2 or argus.Life is ez On the dz Every jumper's dream 3 rigs and an airstream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #47 August 5, 2008 Quote Sharp rig LouDiamond. Nice poptop. 'course it's a damn nice rig- it's a racer!=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trumm 0 #48 August 6, 2008 We just got a brand new tandem gear from Paratec Germany. Next conteiner, Speed reserve, main is Twin 372 elleptical and cypres 2. Very cool gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #49 August 8, 2008 2000+ tandems. Rated on Vector, Sigma, and Strong. Have also jumped Eclipses. Bar none...my system would be a Sigma with Sigma main (of any size) and Vector (PD) reserve. I hear folks complain about the extra toggle pressure of the Sigma canopies, but I will happily take the extra pressure for the way they land. I don't care about having a zippy canopy like a Hop or whatever. Sigmas are plenty zippy and it's a tandem for gosh sake. I've been dropped out on landing hardcore with Icaruses and Precision mains. The Sets aren't the greatest either. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mickochet 0 #50 August 8, 2008 looks like it has one of the drogue releases right under the cutaway like a strong. doesn't seem like that is the best place for it or am i the only one who thinks that that is not a good idea.If you never fall down you aren't trying hard enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
