TI's Do you arch?

[BlueSBDeath 2]

I am with you Steveorino!!!

Old School, HARD arch!!!

BSBD...........Its all about Respect,

USPA#-7062, FB-2197, Outlaw 499

[steveorino 7]

I'm a fairly new TI (2 years and 500 tandem jumps) When I started Dalillama PMed and asked if I was having a problem chipping. I said "Occasionally" He had seen pictures of me in my xtreme-visuals website. He advised me to arch and keep my hands high and simply outfly bad students. I have tried that and it works. I seldom worry about my students body position once we are in the air. I train them good on the ground, but when we are in the sky, I just arch and get big to outfly them.

steveOrino

[skydived19006 4]

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I realise that the Vector manual is a bit old but that technique for exiting a Cessna is not in there

Mark "Shoobi" Knutson trained me, and this is the exit he recommended, and trained us to do from a Cessna.

I do tandems at the Couch Freaks Boogie each year, and it is almost amazing how easy it is out of an Otter!

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[piahenzi 0]

off topic but I just want to do a shout out to my guys .....TI's for the most part at Ranch are also VERY good at working with us videots. Having started this year with that at Ranch, a lot of them have helped me tremendously - getting to me if I am low, facing student into sun etc., giving me as much as they can to help me get a successful jump on tape... and some good face shot stills...and that all starts with a great exit count....student grabbing something not withstanding

[johnny1488 1]

I dont de-arch because I am lazy, I de-arch because I have more surface area in the wind and therefore fly my tandems better. I also control their side movement better, dont have to monster the laterals, and can release them easier.

Not directed at you, but arching TI's how does arching your own body effect the tandem when the student is de-arched or kicking or fetal. Your body isnt really in the wind, is it?

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[johnny1488 1]

Is that belly band pretty standard with the eclipse? Or is that just a soft bellied chick with the stuff sinking in.

Thats also why I dont like to monster the laterals, It makes the belly band tighter.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[bclark 0]

Yes. I present to the wind, launch hard, and arch.

[bodypilot1 0]

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I dont de-arch because I am lazy, I de-arch because I have more surface area in the wind and therefore fly my tandems better. I also control their side movement better, dont have to monster the laterals, and can release them easier.

Not directed at you, but arching TI's how does arching your own body effect the tandem when the student is de-arched or kicking or fetal. Your body isnt really in the wind, is it?

For me, arching or dearching has nothing to do with control surface area. Arching is no dout smoother flying then dearched, and it makes it easier to control the fetal/kicking student as well.

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I do tandems at the Couch Freaks Boogie each year, and it is almost amazing how easy it is out of an Otter!

Ain't that the truth.

[marks2065 0]

i just saw a tandem video that was done in florida. bad TI position, and alot of potato chipping. the student leg straps way to loose, laterals loose, and dearched. the chest strap became a choker strap on opening. this was a very skinny girl. i found with the leg straps and laterals tight and a good arch the student would arch better and the video looked better because it looked in control instead of waffling around the sky.

[dudeman17 339]

Lots o' variables here. I tend not to arch so much, because as has been pointed out, my hips aren't so much in the wind as in the student's burble. With my knees down a bit and out, they are like outriggers, giving me more control. It's called 'anhedral'.

The student's leg position can contribute to chipping. If their legs are outstretched, it seems to want to chip more, if their feet are up on your butt it seems not to want to do it. If it is wanting to chip, more arch, outstretched legs and arms more forward will help quell it.

But what do I know, I've only been doing them for eighteen years...

[BlueSBDeath 2]

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TI's how does arching your own body effect the tandem when the student is de-arched or kicking or fetal. Your body isnt really in the wind, is it?

For me it is the BIG-X, as Steveorino points out, if I am arching hard and have the BIG-X going, the student can do what ever they want. The sooner I learned this the better all my TMs became. The more I tried to help the student or compensate for their bad body position, the worse it became.

Just my 2 cents.

BSBD...........Its all about Respect,

USPA#-7062, FB-2197, Outlaw 499

[riggerrob 643]

Agreed!
Big X arch works best for me.

Last month, a student tried to sit-fly with 90 degree bends in hips, knees, etc.
Manifest were horrified when they watched the video.
I just fully-extended my legs, faced the cameraman and smiled.
Some many hundreds of students have tried to destabilize me with that stunt - and so few have succeeded - that flailing students barely register on my conscious mind anymore. My only reminder is stretched hip flexor muscles.

[livendive 8]

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The more I tried to help the student or compensate for their bad body position, the worse it became.

I mostly agree...I'll sometimes do simple corrections to get rid of an annoyance factor, but the worse my student gets, the less attention I pay to them and the harder I arch. I know what I'm doing and they don't, and I can out-fly them more easily than out-muscle them.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[skydived19006 4]

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I mostly agree...I'll sometimes do simple corrections to get rid of an annoyance factor, but the worse my student gets, the less attention I pay to them and the harder I arch. I know what I'm doing and they don't, and I can out-fly them more easily than out-muscle them.

Blues,
Dave

I've never tried to "out-muscle" a student. Once the drgue is out, if they have one of their legs outside mine, I'll shift it back to the center. If they're knees low, I'll tap them on the thighs, and they generally arch better. If they're shifted to the side under me, I'll reach down and shift them back. If all that fails to stop a turn I stick a leg/arm out and stop it if necessary.

Off the airplane, before the drogue is out, I'm always taping them on the thighs. If necessary I'll hook them with my legs to assist their arch. I've found that the worst students tend to be little old ladies. They seem to go off like a limp noodle, and are just flailing all over the place. With these I hook the legs, pull shoulders, and arch us both, when it gets belly to earth I get real big and throw the drogue. I also tent to put on my big baggy suit with these students, big arms and legs does wonders for your control!

Again, this is off a 182 doing a diving exit. Pretty much doesn't apply if you're instantly presented to the wind out of an Otter.

Attached a few more pictures, not much help, but just for fun.

Martin

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[livendive 8]

Obviously what you do works for you, and I'll occasionally hook legs too. On a completely unrelated note...in your first picture, having a student's hands that close to my emergency handles scares the shit out of me!

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[skydived19006 4]

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On a completely unrelated note...in your first picture, having a student's hands that close to my emergency handles scares the shit out of me!

Blues,
Dave

I have the student grab their harness, as long as they're hanging onto their harness, I figure they can't get us in trouble. Hadn't thought of it until now, but you suppose this potential issue is why many TIs have the student cross their arms?

I did have a student a while back while under canopy grabbing around for something to hang onto (I steer from 1500' or so). She got scary close to the main release handle, it didn't take me long to guide her hands to something safe!

Martin

Martin

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[jdthomas 0]

[JSBIRD 1]

Just for the exit...after that, I always relaxed until I needed to maneuver.

Since 99% of my tandem landings were above 6500' msl, I usually saved my power for the flare.

BASE359

"Now I've settled down,
in a quiet little town,
and forgot about everything"

[skydived19006 4]

Quote

I've never tried to "out-muscle" a student.

Martin

[RoryJ 0]

I throw an arch on exit, to be sure, but my freeflyer tendencies allow me the mental freedom to get ready to wrap a student up at any moment or to simply fly the exit in whatever position is really suited best at that moment.

While in drogue fall I will usually have a soft arch. If they are potato chipping and have their legs straight out, then I give them the old pull-up-the-legs, push-their-hips-forward-with-yours.

Not again!

[tqsmile 0]

I have found the more aggressive I arch on exit there more I have had problems flying...the student often not where you want them. I am now more relaxed on exit and using my arms and legs with a slight arch..my thinking is that it takes away the side spin deal..on drogue out i am still not in huge arch..knees down a little.i do all hand cam..i tend to fly with the student using my legs to keeps us nice and comfy and into the sun for the shot...i have had only good tandems doing this...

TQ
I am me and you are you, so deal with it!!!
www.skydivepe.com

[toolbox 0]

I arch unless the situation calls for somthing else (like side spin,or tailgate exit,ect...).
I have never had a problem controlling the skydive or finding air to fly with by arching.
I've seen alot of TI's buck and chip flying with knees low.
I also have a few thousand handcam tandems.

[jvcvudu 0]

Ditto