AHoyThere 0 #1 October 20, 2008 I know there's been plenty of discussion on the merits of the y-strap modification for tandem harnesses. On Saturday I took some pictures of a tandem. Take a look at the attached picture. This girl was so flexible. I think the picture shows the why the y-strap is a good addition to the tandem harness. Regards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
josheezammit 0 #2 October 20, 2008 why does strong put b 12's on their harness? Ahh, what a wonderful world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #3 October 20, 2008 Quotewhy does strong put b 12's on their harness? They don't on their new ones. I like the b12s on the instructor harness. It makes donning it much easier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #4 October 20, 2008 Quotewhy does strong put b 12's on their harness? ........................................................................ Strong will build tandem student harnesses with B-12 snaps or thread throughs ... whatever you order. Some old school instructors prefer B-12 snaps. Hint: all the B-12 equipped student harnesses in Pitt Meadows are gathering dust on the back shelf - in the back corner of the loft - because young tandem instructors believe they are craters in search of coordinates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgarango 0 #5 October 20, 2008 That is one flexible girl... I am always concern about people like her, so I wrap my ankles around theirs after drouge deployment. That way I can reduce the how mauch the legs are swung. But I agree with you, the Y-Mod increases the safety factor. Juan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #6 October 20, 2008 Yesterday I saw a tandem student preparing to board the aircraft wearing a Strong student harness. I noted that the fabric of the Y-Mod was MUCH more worn than the remainder of the harness. It appeared to be one of the retro-fitted Y-Mods (as opposed to a whole harness made at the same time). I wonder if the Y-Mod and the rest of the harness are made from different kinds of webbing. The wear was quite noticeable.The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bclark 0 #7 October 20, 2008 Hmmmm. Sliding landings? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #8 October 21, 2008 QuoteBut I agree with you, the Y-Mod increases the safety factor. the original y mod was actually inhibiting people from lifting their legs, the newer ones have more distance between the leg straps so the issue has been dealt with, but..... There are still hundred of original y strap harnesses out there that are waiting to break someone's legs. A newbie TM in conjunction with the old design y strap and marginal conditions are more than likely responsible for more than a couple of severe injuries to date. falling out of a passenger harness is not very likely if the harness is secured anywhere near correctly."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,436 #9 October 21, 2008 Hi, I am not an instructor or tandem-jumper. I was up at Skydive Kapowsin a few months ago and saw some paperwork posted on the wall where they had secured local FAA-approval to convert their Sigma Tandems with a Y-mod. Anyone interested in this might contact them for more information. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flipper 0 #10 October 21, 2008 If the harness is fitted correctly this isnt a problem .... the Y harness stops the student / passenger from lifting there legs ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhays 86 #11 October 21, 2008 Perhaps their tandem-I's don't know how to properly put on a tandem harness. “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AHoyThere 0 #12 October 21, 2008 QuoteIf the harness is fitted correctly this isnt a problem .... the Y harness stops the student / passenger from lifting there legs ... You think that the harness in the picture was fitted incorrectly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #13 October 21, 2008 From what Bll Nooth told me he would not put a Y-strap on sigma harnesses until the faa forced him too, and his design would not load until a student had left the harness. If I Have someone who I am afriad might get theur legs high on opening (ie fat chicks or flexible girls) O rotate head high after drouge release and or hook their legs. I have never had anyone even close to coming out of a harness because I do my harnesses by the book. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #14 October 21, 2008 Quote If I Have someone who I am afriad might get theur legs high on opening (ie fat chicks or flexible girls) O rotate head high after drouge release and or hook their legs. I have never had anyone even close to coming out of a harness because I do my harnesses by the book. Well, there's the little problem. You fly the Sigma harness, think it is a good system, believe you do the harness up properly, and say that you've never had anyone close to coming out of the harness. Yet at the same time you take these extra little steps at opening with 'at risk' people, to try to help make sure they don't fall out. There's something of a contradiction there. I'm not blaming you. I also fly a Sigma system. Despite thinking the system overall is great, one wonders a little in the back of one's mind if there might be a problem for a very limp or flexible passenger. Whether there is or isn't a problem is another matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #15 October 21, 2008 First pattern Y-straps do not prevent students from lifting their feet for landing. Second pattern Y-straps do not prevent students from lifting their feet for landing. The problem is Tandem Instructors who are too ignorant/lazy/arrogant to learn modern methods of adjusting harnesses. Hint: if students still complain about difficulty lifting their legs, tell them to let go of the steering toggles and grab their knees. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #16 October 21, 2008 Obviously the possibility is there that someone can fall out of a harness. And yes I am paranoid when I do this, but I would rather be paranoid and on top of my game. I want to control when the leg straps come down my students leg a bit for the canopy ride, not the opening making the straps slide. And I dont think its a contradiction if I have never had anyone close to falling out because I harness properly and prevent their legs from coming up on opening. i think it is being one step ahead. Because I o those things, I lessen the chances of it ever hapening. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flipper 0 #17 October 21, 2008 From what I can see in the pictures, I reckon its fitted correctly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AHoyThere 0 #18 October 21, 2008 QuoteIf the harness is fitted correctly this isnt a problem .... the Y harness stops the student / passenger from lifting there legs ... QuoteFrom what I can see in the pictures, I reckon its fitted correctly The original post simply noted that certain types of passengers (in this case a small flexible girl) can demonstrate a situation (during opening shock) where they could find themselves in a position making them susceptible to falling out of the harness. Then you said two things. 1) If the harness is fitted properly, this would not be a problem. 2) The Y-Strap would stop the student from lifting their legs. The harness in this example is fitted properly and yet she still looks to be in a precarious position. Also, this girl did not have any problem lifting her legs even with the Y-strap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flipper 0 #19 October 22, 2008 ....And what I said is ...if the harness is fitted correctly then the position shown in the picture is not a problem and I agree with you ... a harness not fitted correctly and with a student in that position there is a chance that the TI is landing alone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixoligist 0 #20 October 22, 2008 The "why" strap. .................................. Better you than me .................................. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AHoyThere 0 #21 October 22, 2008 Quote....And what I said is ...if the harness is fitted correctly then the position shown in the picture is not a problem and I agree with you ... a harness not fitted correctly and with a student in that position there is a chance that the TI is landing alone Ah, I get what you are saying now. I thought you meant that if the harness was fitted correctly, then the student could not get their legs that high up. I think that for the few people in the world who can get their legs that high during deployment, it would be good to have the y-strap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #22 October 23, 2008 Quoteirst pattern Y-straps do not prevent students from lifting their feet for landing. i beg to differ, the distance between the leg straps is finite with the y strap, the first edition y straps had short sections of webbing where the y attaches to the legstraps themselves. if a person had an 'ample bottom' it becomes increasingly difficult to adjust the harness correctly as the size of the said persons bottom becomes larger. Strong enterprises acknowledged this and amended the design and posted modification details on their website."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swoopgaz 0 #23 October 24, 2008 if tandem masters did their job properly to begin with by putting the harness on properly, we wouldn't even be having this conversation because there would be no such thing as the Y mod. If the harness is done up correctly the student can't fall out. That also includes having them connected properly to the tandem master Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #24 October 26, 2008 I had a big gal the other day, 6', 220 pounds, with a large . . . derriere. I made sure to put her in the "Y" harness. You can work your way out of even a properly adjusted harness if enough things go wrong. I'm on the other side of the argument from you. I think the "Y" is a good idea for certain body styles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #25 October 26, 2008 QuoteYou can work your way out of even a properly adjusted harness if enough things go wrong. Would you elaborate on the last part of that statement?Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
