What would you do???

[ozzy13 0]

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=guestpass&id=gxjmh

Instructor exits skyvan and on deploying drogue gets it entangled around foot

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[livendive 8]

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Instructor exits skyvan and on deploying drogue gets it entangled around foot

Personally, I'd try harder for a stable exit & drogue deployment.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[pilotdave 0]

They teach what to do in the tandem course. And it doesn't involve a camera flyer.
Dave

[AggieDave 6]

The easiest exit to do out of a tailgate is to simply walk off the end and arch. Its a really nice stable back lay out that leaves you really stable with out the chance of dragging your students' face across the edge of the floor.

That back layout tailgate exit makes me giggle like a little girl every single time.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AndyBoyd 0]

Wow. That video made my palms sweat and got my heart rate up. It's been 5 years since I've done tandems, and I admit that I'm not sure what the "textbook" procedure would be in that situation. If the drouge had been hung up for that long, thought, I'd be pulling silver.

[Kimblair13 0]

Not being an idiot and having a better exit is what I'd do...but if I was an idiot for a jump and did that I'd go for my hook knife and cut that bitch off.

[matthewcline 0]

I am with you on that one Dave!
I teach it to any one who wants to know.

Learned it in the I/E course and have loved it ever since.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[towerrat 0]

wow! I'm sorry but I would have got my reserve out a lot sooner than that. If that camera man had gotten on me like that he'd be wearing my reserve for a hat. I'd rather have more fabric out sooner and have time and altitude to deal with an intanglement. Even after all the superman bullshit he still had to fire his reserve into the mess. Now he's just that much lower

Edited to add: Rule number one? Stop the skydive!

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!

[Rover 11]

With all due respect I totally disagree. The drogue was inflated so tandem terminal was not the issue. If the drogue had been cleared then there would have been a normal deployment after. Why would you want to risk a reserve entanglement with the drouge if it could be avoided? I would spend as much time as I could trying to clear the drogue. Please expand on how you would "deal with an entanglement".
I commend the cameraman for his actions and with regard to the initial drogue throw that lead to this situation - let he who is perfect cast the first stone.

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[diablopilot 2]

1. I'd try for a cleaner exit.
2. I'd try to clear it.
3. I'd pull my reserve.
4. I'd chew the camera flyer's ass. Thanks for trying to help, but he was preventing a safe reserve deployment.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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4. I'd chew the camera flyer's ass. Thanks for trying to help, but he was preventing a safe reserve deployment.

It is tough to say from the vid what the level of communication was between them.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Not being an idiot and having a better exit is what I'd do...but if I was an idiot for a jump and did that I'd go for my hook knife and cut that bitch off.

It didn't look like he could reach above the student's leg to cut. Cutting below the leg may or may not have released the hitch. I think I would have tried it to see.

[lewmonst 0]

I'd yank the TI's rating. Then ban the cameraguy from tandems.

http://www.exitshot.com

[ericskraby 0]

So the general consensus is that the camera guy should have just stayed back and done nothing?

[jimmytavino 16]

once again, thanks for the website pilotdave...

yes, the camera person was completely ineffective, though maybe, the intentions were good.. might have been best to square off to the instructor and "encourage" a reserve pull..with visual or audible cues.....

I noticed that the Drogue bridle seems awfully thin...... i guess i am used to seeing much heavier and wider bridles...
What rig was that? does it use a "kill line" to collapse the drogue??/

it can't be determined for certain from the video that the reserve completed its opening,,,,
it looks like the drogue was well involved with the suspension lines from the reserve...
it's hoped that all went well....

great video, for the purposes of intitiating discussion...

jmy
A 3914
D 12122

[johnny1488 1]

Don't forget to mention throwing the drouge instead of the limp wristed extract and let go move.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[Para5-0 0]

I think you will have a variety of thoughts on this one but to break it into two:
Prevent the problem from the start. Exit and gain stability via flying your body, Tandem 101. I agree the backloop is a very easy stable exit. This was not accomplished for a variety of reasons.

and two Should a video guy try to assist a in air emergency? My thoughts are completely different given the situation, yes it is easy to monday quarterback these things. I think as long as there was some sort of communication the video guy acted on what he felt to be a moral obligation to assist rather than sit back and watch. Problem: a)He prevented a reserve deployment, B) if the TI did deploy the reserve it would or could have been a triple funeral. The communication seemed to be good and once the video guy backed up the TI initiated reserve. i think the video guy did a very nice job attempting to help but with a little knowledge about drouges he would have known they are like lead pipes once out. I am glad this worked out but it emphasises good pre jump ground preps with the video guy....What to do if I have a problem? best answer is get out of my way so I do not have to worry about you and can deal with the issue at hand.
my thoughts anyway.

[humanflite 0]

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I think you will have a variety of thoughts on this one but to break it into two:
Prevent the problem from the start. Exit and gain stability via flying your body, Tandem 101. I agree the backloop is a very easy stable exit. This was not accomplished for a variety of reasons.

and two Should a video guy try to assist a in air emergency? My thoughts are completely different given the situation, yes it is easy to monday quarterback these things. I think as long as there was some sort of communication the video guy acted on what he felt to be a moral obligation to assist rather than sit back and watch. Problem: a)He prevented a reserve deployment, B) if the TI did deploy the reserve it would or could have been a triple funeral. The communication seemed to be good and once the video guy backed up the TI initiated reserve. i think the video guy did a very nice job attempting to help but with a little knowledge about drouges he would have known they are like lead pipes once out. I am glad this worked out but it emphasises good pre jump ground preps with the video guy....What to do if I have a problem? best answer is get out of my way so I do not have to worry about you and can deal with the issue at hand.
my thoughts anyway.

Good post.

I agree that comms seemed good between the two and although I am not a Ti, I think that the camera guy was acting in what he thought were the best interests of the Ti.
They werent in the end but hey, Im guessing the Ti and student landed safe and well or else this video would be evidence and would not be on the internet...

I never realised the drogue was so strong.
How much lbs of pull does a tandem drogue have ? any riggers out there?

[buff 0]

Something else I noticed is that the camera man is not wearing an hand mounted altimeter and does not appear to check a chest mount at anytime during the dive. I can't ID an alti on the TI either.

I could be wrong, but it appears that maybe they are only relying on dytters?

It's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude.
If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough.
That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama

[pairashooter 0]

It looked like the TI and video guy were communicating via eye contact. If the TI didn't trust the camera guy with trying to clear the drogue then he would have probably waved him off. If I were the video guy I would have probably cut the drogue so that there is less to throw the reserve into. If I were the TI it really depends on the video person flying with me as to my decision. The TI's I jump with trust me enough to try and help for a few seconds if I am there. We also don't know the relationship these two have.

Chris Scaife

[D22369 0]

ban the cameraguy from tandems.
***

so easy to sit in your chair and second guess the person in the air isnt it? he had the balls to attempt a save, and your gonna ban him? fuck dude where do you get off? a reserve dep with a drogue out isnt a good idea, granted it will probably work but with the peeps I worked with most were my friends. I dont know about you.. but if they burned in and I didnt try everything in my power to stop it I couldnt live with that.

but different strokes for diff folks and all that. I am glad your not filming any of my friends.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[skydiverek 63]

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I never realised the drogue was so strong.
How much lbs of pull does a tandem drogue have?

Half of the suspended weight. So approx 200 lbs.

[skydiverek 63]

Was it a Cypres fire or reserve pull. Watching frame-by-frame, I can see TM's hand extending, but I do not see reserve ripcord in it.

[Scoop 0]

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Not being an idiot and having a better exit is what I'd do...but if I was an idiot for a jump and did that I'd go for my hook knife and cut that bitch off.

I'm sure it probably could be done but I'm not sure I could take my hook knife out under that stress, at terminal freefall speed against the relative wind, with gloves on and still have the dexterity. I'd probably unpop the pocket on my jumpsuit and watch the hook knife fly away the moment I tried to remove it.

[diablopilot 2]

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so easy to sit in your chair and second guess the person in the air isnt it? he had the balls to attempt a save, and your gonna ban him? fuck dude where do you get off? a reserve dep with a drogue out isnt a good idea, granted it will probably work but with the peeps I worked with most were my friends. I dont know about you.. but if they burned in and I didnt try everything in my power to stop it I couldnt live with that.

Until you are the Tandem Instructor IN THAT situation, it's not your decision to make.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.