Mals

[matttrudeau 0]

Hello, I have a question about malfunctions. On average, how many malfunctions could you expect to have in 500 jumps? I know there isn't one single number, but I just want an idea. This includes (line twists, line overs, etc) Even if you didn't have to cutaway.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Not sure about an "average", but I can tell you that I only have two reserve rides in 2,800 skydives. One of those was a CRW wrap, so you really can't count that. I know a guy that didn't have his first ride till he had over 5000 jumps. I also know a couple of people that have had three rides in 20 jumps.
Chuck
My webpage HERE

[flow 1]

If I remember right here in Finland atleast the average was something like 1 reserve ride/700 jumps.
But the original question was about malfunctions, and there are some malfunctions that don't necessarily lead to reserve ride. I guess these are a bit more common.
(mostly caused by lousy packing methods)

[Kirils 1]

I've heard 1 mal per 600 jumps is an average. But I've had 4 reserve rides in my first 200 jumps...go figure. Fine tune your packing techniques. Never be in a rush. Do gear check checks like your life depended on them (it does!) Think and fly responsibly. My friend has 2000+ jumps with no chops, and she owes it to a strict methodology.
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[billvon 3,008]

Worst stat I heard was 1 in 300, from Para-Gear. Our student rigs averaged about 1 in 1200 or so. Personally, I've had 5 in 2600 jumps, but 3 of those were tandem mals. On my regular rigs it's about 1 in 1000.
-bill von

[Dedalus 0]

I went 2000 jumps without a malfunction, then had three this year, two of which were tandem line-overs.
As you collect replies, you might want to distinguish between aggravations like line twists (which occur every 4 or 5 student jumps, especially on Cat C and Cat D jumps), and malfunctions requiring reserve activation (every 300 to 1000 jumps, based on the replies you've received so far).
Mark Baur

[riggerrob 643]

Among sport jumpers the average is something like 1 malfunction per 1000 jumps, but no-one bothers to keep statistics.
I have 17 reserve rides in 3700 jumps. Mind you, I started jumping 24 years ago and several of those malfunctions were on gear that is now laughed off my home DZ.
To break it down, my first reserve ride occurred - in 1979 - after another freefall student forgot to clear the stabilizers on the Cross-Bow he was packing for me. What is a Cross-Bow? No-one seems to care anymore, except to say that it was a poor copy of the Para-Commander.
My second mal was the result of a loose main closing loop. Okay, God! I got that lesson.
My third mal was the result of a "novel" packing method on an experimental canopy they were trying to sell to the German Army.
Along the way I also tore up round mains belonging to the Canadian and German Armies.
The rest of my reserve rides were on first generation Strong tandem mains in Southern California. Fortunately those packers have retired. These days you could not give me an F-111 tandem main!

[rgoper 0]

i've been in the sport 14 months now, and over 250 sky dives, probably 25 "partials" only once did i almost chop away. i hate it, because it makes me apprenhensive about each skydive, "is this the dive?" i rehearse before, in the plane, constantly drill in my head what i will do, if by 1800, i ain't kewel, i'm releasing, and "pulling the silver" there's no doubt in my mind. i'm even going to rent a "intentional cut-away rig" just to get it over with.
R.G.
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[RemiAndKaren 0]

Partial? Care to tell us what a Partial mal is?
Remi
Muff 914

[fred 0]

Quote

Partial? Care to tell us what a Partial mal is?

Actually, this is the same terminology that they use at my dz. A "partial" malfunction is one that you will, given altitude, recover from. On a student canopy, the only one they taught us was a line twist.
And, as far as those go, I've had a few. I'm a prime example of a student who's upping the statistics on his own. I've probably had 5 line twists on my 15 jumps (slight spinning problem during freefall). The one I hate more, however, would be a riser slap. While probably not a partial, still an uncomfortable opening. I actually broke the strap off a helmet with one of those.

[lummy 4]

sort of the same thing for my DZ. The way it was described to me was a partial malfunction was anything where a canopy was over your head, such as line twists, collapsed end cells, line over, etc. a total malfunction is a bag lock, no pull, Hard pull

[des 2]

total agreement here ,riggerrob.those f11 425's were evil! had 13 chops on them mothers,in 2000 tandems,had 1 chop on icarus tandems in 2500 tandems.haven't had a chop on my personal gear yet.X.in 3500 jumps.i'm a bloody rough packer too!
des

[Geoff 0]

To me a total malfunction means total - nothing out - no Pc, no bag, no nothing. normally caused by a hard pull or failure to find the handle.
Geoff

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Hmm, I knew one girl that had a brake line unstow on her first jump - went into a spiral, chopped it (we *ALL* gave her the lecture about popping the toggles first if you look up and see an ok canopy but are 'spinning').
Me, closing in on jump 100 - numerous line twists - the BOC Pouch on my rig is super tight so the pull is a hard one, 1 instance of double riser bitch slap, 1 instance of pilot chute bridle wrapped around leg at 3K (2nd freefall off of IAD - was told to serious consider taking up fishing, I *HATE* fishing ;) ). No cutaways, no reserve rides - am actually anxious to have the first mal - just to get the bloody thing out of the way (as they say, the anxiety is worse than the occurance).

[Merrick 0]

Quote

"Hmm, I knew one girl that had a brake line unstow on her first jump - went into a spiral, chopped it (we *ALL* gave her the lecture about popping the toggles first if you look up and see an ok canopy but are 'spinning')."

lol - that's nothin man, a student (I think AFF II) about a year or so ago at our DZ chopped & pulled his reserve because he thought the slider was too loud!LOL There's the occasional joke about installing slider mufflers on the student canopies now.
"Pammi's Hemp/Skydiving Jewelry"

[PhreeZone 20]

Quote

we *ALL* gave her the lecture about popping the toggles first if you look up and see an ok canopy but are 'spinning'

Speaking from experience here, I've popped a toggle on opening and the canopy went over and spinning really good on me. Closing in on 300 jumps, I started looking for the usual, line over, tension knot, broken steering line, etc... I grabed the toggle out of sheer habit to pop the brakes and once they poped, the ride was cool again. But grabbing the toggles first thing is instintive to me after a couple of hunderd jumps.
With all the stress of a first jump, I would'nt even think about having a "Lecture" with a student about something like that for a few hours, and then when I would talk to them, is sure the heck would'nt be a lecture. It would be more of a feedback and learning session. All lecturing does is discourace students and encourage them to leave the sport.
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Seriously? Maybe they have some irrational fear of sliders - some kids I guess had monsters in the closet, I guess this individual had a slider hiding in the closet? ;)
That must have sucked to chop away from a loud slider, only to open under a reserve with another loud slider - I guess they must have thought they had a dbl mal;)

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Well considering it was a student with a really lightly loaded canopy, I doubt it was anything near a 'on your back, swinging like a yoyo over someones head' kind of thing - but from a first jumper point of view, I sure as scary as hell nonetheless.
Considering it was her first jump - many of us agreed she did the right thing - she had a canopy she felt she couldn't land - she just happened to forget the part of the FJC about popped toggles causing spirals *shrug*.
I'm starting to think the USPA should come up with a booklet for the generic portion of the FJC that can be handed out to first jumpers before they do the course, so that the generic portion of the course is more of a re-inforcement of the book, rather than whole tonne of information being drilled into people (who are often times scared to death) in a 4 to 6 hour period. Just a passing thought.
We still gave her crap about it, even after she got her 'A' ;) Then again, she does have her documented cutaway for the tandem cert. I don't.

[PhreeZone 20]

Some dropzones do have booklets like that. My DZ for instance has the entire student training manual on its Website for students and anyone to look over and review. Every few months I'll look at the important parts like 2 out situations and Mals. Even with a decent amount of currency 200+ in the last year, I still feel that anyone can benifit from reading the student manual. I'm hoping to get my Coach rating and teach some FJC's this next summer.One of the big things I already push to everyone is reading the manual as a reminder.
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[matttrudeau 0]

Why are you anxious to have a reserve ride? In my opinion, it's not something to be happy about.

[Kirils 1]

You've had "25 partials"? Wow, that's just too many. There is a problem, no one should have that much trouble! No wonder you are skiddish at opening time! Get a qualified rigger to review your gear and packing technique. Skydiving is FUN and it appears you are getting cheated out of the enjoyment do you!
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Not anxious in a good way - more of a 9th grade booster shot kind of thing - it's gonna happen eventually - so lets get it out of the way and move on. Like I said, the anxiety of awaiting the inevitable is often times worse than the actual situation that you are worried about.

[PhreeZone 20]

A reserve ride is always inveitible. I know a guy with 76 reserve rides, 4 in the same day. He was a test jumper for many years. And at every opening he said he is expecting to have number 77.Just because you have a reserve ride does'nt mean you are off the hook for another X number of jumps. Always be expecting the need for silver on EVERY skydive.
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[rgoper 0]

a "streamer" is a total mal, with something out, "lineovers" can (and generally are) be totals with something out, food for thought. when you deploy, and your not square, steerable and stable, or you dont feel that "in the saddle" feeling, look up, you may have a streamer, i've seen them, there fugly. i may add that streamers are generally "high speed mals", and need to be dealt with accordingly.
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[rgoper 0]

most of these partials were self induced, ie: body positioning, improper packing teqniques, etc..i consider line twists partials, i had a brake come unstowed during deployment, that was a spinning partial, then i deployed once, and immediately went into a left hand hard spiral, i was belly to earth under canopy, scary, i unstowed the brakes, the main flew fine, and the rest of the sky dive was uneventful. i checked my steering lines on that pack job, i had 2400 twists in the left steering line, which made it of course shorter than the right one, new habit, check steering lines each jump!
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"