Mals

[RemiAndKaren 0]

I'll shut up now cuz you feel we're ganging up on you by trying to share our limited experience. There's enough flame wars around...
Remi
Muff 914

[billvon 2,991]

>are you implying that someone is going to be influenced to not cut away a
> streamer because of my reference?
Yes. Some examples:
One student of mine did not pull on his level II because another student told him to "wait until you wave off your JM's before you pull." He waved, we didn't go away, so he didn't pull.
Another student heard someone tell him "Gotta get a real good hold of those toggles, really wrap your hand around them, before you pull them." He grabbed the entire riser/toggle combo and started pulling on them. The canopy didn't steer very well, though.
A third low-time jumper heard someone say she should use a throwout. She read the SIM, but nowhere in the SIM does it say you actually have to let go of the PC. I gave her a gear check, asked her if she knew she had a throwout and could use it, and she said yes. She jumped, pulled, hung onto the PC, and figured she had a total mal. She then did what was spelled out in the SIM - pulled her reserve (letting go of the main PC in the process.) Result - two canopies out. Landed safely, fortunately.
There's a reason we are careful about what we tell students. What we tell them comes from long experience about what works and what doesn't. And to us, a malfunction is something you cut away from - so that's what it means to them, too. If you tell them to _not_ cut away from a mal (because you consider line twist a partial mal) they may just take your advice to heart and not cut away from an unlandable canopy. It happens all too often.
>that's absurd.
I'm sorry you feel that way. Again, feel free to call it whatever you choose. Please do _not_ talk to low time or student jumpers about your new nomenclature. You do not want to be responsible, even indirectly, for someone else's injury or death. That really sucks.
>i tried correcting myself by referring to the sim, but obviously it's not good
>enough for you . . .
Again, you can call it whatever you want!! Call it a Roman candle if you want (that was once a popular term for streamer.) Just don't use your new terminology around people who can be hurt by it.
-bill von

[billvon 2,991]

>please see my response to merrick, ok? and i did add that if i dissconnect my
> RSL, that it is my plan, and i DO NOT advise others to do as i am doing, this is
> my plan, and mine alone, although i did learn it elsewhere.
That's no problem, you're free to do that. However, this is a safety and training forum, and if you post something that some people consider unsafe (and I do consider your RSL disconnect plan unsafe) then expect to hear about it. If you don't want to hear about it, don't post about it. If you do post about it others will likely give you advice. You can take the advice or not, it's up to you.
-bill von

[rgoper 0]

I was going for a wild ride. Popped the RSL, leaned as far out of the turn as possible, grabbed the risers to pull apart
---------------------------------------------------
these words were written by another poster in your forum just right above this one a few paragraphs/posts whatever. now you know why i fell "cut out of the herd" i shall not speak on this subject again.
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[GrumpySmurf 0]

I'll take credit for it - since I wrote it. It was only the second time I have popped the RSL (the first being in winds high enough that I swear I was flying backwards at 3K faster than the cars below me were going forwards ;) - it was one of those "Not gonna jump in those winds again" experiences). I'll be the first to recommend to anyone to get an RSL with a new rig (I made it a point to make sure it came with mine), especially after stories of entanglements at 1K followed by a cutaway - but the situation I was in when I popped it, I felt warranted for it to go bye bye (at 3K with the start of what was looking to be a spinning mal and near guarenteed reserve ride).
The question might be: did I make the right decision. I think the better question might be: am I still alive and well.
The answer to the first, I think so. The answer to the second, definitely.
I feel if students are taking the advice of wanna-be skygods without consulting thier current/former instructor(s), that needs to be addressed vigorously by the instructors during training. As well, the wanna-be skygods need to realize they do set an example for students and need to be careful of thier words. *AND* the students need to learn to take any advice with a grain of salt, and when in doubt about the info or the source, consult the instructor.
Caveat: I am not an instructor, nor play one on TV. Take everything I say with a grain ..scratch that, a shaker, of salt :)

[riggerrob 643]

At Pitt Meadows, we teach students that line twists, closed end cells, and slider not all the way down are all "nuisances" that can easily be solved.

[billvon 2,991]

>I feel if students are taking the advice of wanna-be skygods without consulting
> thier current/former instructor(s), that needs to be addressed vigorously by the
> instructors during training. As well, the wanna-be skygods need to realize they
> do set an example for students and need to be careful of thier words. *AND* the
> students need to learn to take any advice with a grain of salt, and when in doubt
> about the info or the source, consult the instructor.
Good points. Often, new jumpers really want to help students. It's hard to be a student, go through the program, get say 100 jumps, then _not_answer a student's question, especially when he looks really earnest, is embarrassed to ask his instructor etc. And as long as it's an absolutely black and white answer, like "Oh, my rig is called a Javelin" - I don't see anything wrong with answering them. But even seemingly innocent questions, like "What do you call that kind of a turn, again?" can lead to problems if they start hearing about a new system of nomenclature halfway through student progression.
On the other end, it's something we warn students about, but people are people and they like to talk, and natural questions come up. Part of the good of a structured program is that you can see when odd things start to creep in (like a few students I've had who hear an RW exit count and start using that) and fix them if they are a problem, rather than just assume that another instructor taught them something different.
-bill von

[GrumpySmurf 0]

I guess those of us who want to help out know just enough to be dangerous, but not enough to be of any use ;)

[Strynx 0]

"line twists, closed end cells, and slider not all the way down"
I've spoken with afew jumpers from different Quebec DZ and they were all taught to treat those "partial mals" as of nuisance. That's how our instructor tought us.But he also added "try once try twice chop it" Just out of curiosity is it C.S.P.A. that suggest that or a general "teaching concensus"