Throwout vs Pullout

[matttrudeau 0]

Which type of deployment method do you use and why? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each method? What is the safest deployment method for freeflying?

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

I currently use throwaway because I'm not up to the 200 jump limit on pull-out yet. I'd prefer a pullout system because of the no horseshoe possibility, and there being a much reduced risk of p/c in tow (which is the one mal that scares me). I might get my rig converted from a pin to a teflon cable though to reduce horseshoe risk.
I skydive, therefore I am

• Quote

[riggerrob 643]

My first rig had a belly-mounted throw-out when I bought it in 1979. Since then I have reviewed other systems, but never heard a convincing argument that anything else was better. Theonly changes I have made were to gradually shift my throw-out from belly-band, to front of leg strap, to rear of leg strap and now BOC.
I have been jumping throw-outs for 22 years.
Most of my students have been jumping throw-outs for 17 years.
Throw-outs work.
Why mess with success?
T.K Donle covered the pull-out versus throw-out debate well in an earlier post.
Basically, T.K. said that - with throw outs - you can devote most of your arm muscle to getting the pilotchute out to full arm's extension. The pilotchute can put 70 or more pounds of tension on the pin, which is more than double what most guys can pull at that angle. Having tension on the bridle - when the container opens - reduces the chances of the bag flipping, etc.
On the other hand, T.K. said that too many pull-outs waste arm muscle pulling the pin, so they don't always get the pilotchute to full arm's extension. Furthermore, all that extra effort often results in one shoulder being lower than the other when you reach linestretch. Uneven shoulders are a major cause of line twists, especially on Stiletto-class canopies.
I have cheerfully done BOC retrofits on hundreds of rigs, but plead ignorance when anyone asks me to retrofit a pull-out.
On the other hand, pull-outs only represent 5% of new proucdtion.
Granted, pull-outs showed us the best handle location (lower right corner of main container) and granted, it took the rest of us many years to clue in, but I am convinced that pull-outs only survive because skydivers are a fiercely independent lot.
Look at me! Look at me! My gear is cooler/smaller/scarier than everybody else's gear.
The second reason that pull-outs survive is because many POPS have been jumping pull-outs for so long that they cannot be retrained.
The safest rig for freeflying is any rig that is well designed and maintained.

[johnny1488 1]

I would also point out that while eliminating the chances of a pilot chute in tow the chance for a horseshoe is still very much there. An unstable diployment is still just that...unstable. Horseshoe doesnt just mean risers adn PC in the pouch. I use BOC but have nothing against anyone who uses pull out. Both work but BOC works for me.
Johnny

[Floater 0]

From recent experience, I'd say go with a throw out. I just bought a new (to me) rig that is set up as a pull out. My third jump on it was almost a hard pull. I was able to reach back with both hands after the first attempt and finally get it out. I have never had any problems with a throw out so, I left my rig at the DZ so it can be converted. I just feel that you are more likely to pack a hard pull than pack a mal with a throw out.
Just for info, I didn't go low on that jump. I still had the pc out by the time my Dytter was hitting 3000 ft.
Lee

[billvon 2,991]

It comes down to what kind of mal(s) you prefer - a total (from a lost pud with a pullout) or a PC in tow/horseshoe (from a stuck pin or prematurely extracted pin.) Both can be minimized by careful packing of course. Throwouts seem to have a higher overall success rate, but that may largely be familiarization - more people are familiar with throwouts nowadays, so the pullout is generally the "new" system. AAD's have largely eliminated the primary source of fatalities with the pullout system, which was the ten-second search for the floating pud that's _almost_ by your fingertips.
The one big advantage to the pullout I see is that a premature pin extraction generally gives you an open canopy, not a mal. I've used both, but both my current rigs have throwouts.
-bill von

[AggieDave 6]

Excuse my ignorance, but I don't understand the difference, I thought they were the same thing. Does a pull-out have a spring loaded PC or something?
AggieDave '02
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Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[billvon 2,991]

>Excuse my ignorance, but I don't understand the difference, I thought
>they were the same thing. Does a pull-out have a spring loaded PC or something?
Nope. There are three separate systems in general use:
1. Ripcord. A ripcord holds the pack closed through one or more closing loops. When the ripcord is extracted, the container opens and the PC/bridle/bag/canopy is freed. The PC is launched via a spring. It enters the relative wind and begins deployment of the canopy.
2. Pullout. A 'ripcord' (in this case, a pud connected to a straight pin) holds the container closed. The pud is also connected to the bottom of the PC, which in turn is attached to the bridle and the main. The PC is packed inside the container, on top of the D-bag. When you pull the pud, first the container is opened, then the PC is pulled out by its base. It inflates as soon as it hits the air, yanks itself out of your hand, and begins deployment.
3. Throwout. A PC with a handle on its apex is attached to the bridle. The bridle also contains a curved pin that holds the container closed. When you throw the PC, it does not inflate until you release it, since the pud's on the apex. Once you release it it rotates, inflates, then pulls the curved pin to open the container and begin deployment of the main.
-bill von