Right Of Way Under Canopy

[rgoper 0]

the other week at my home dz in waller, texas, i was under canopy around 1500 agl. all of the sudden i hear another skydiver, who was above me, and over my left shoulder screaming obscentities at me, he had to do a hard left turn with his left front riser to avoid colliding with me. i was pissed! this particular skydiver was also wearing a camera helmet. when we got back to the packing area, he began to scold me, saying that i turned in front of him and it was my fault that we almost collided. i said "let's review the camera my man" (i knew i was underneath him) i told him, if it was bad as he said it was, then surely, me and my canopy would be in his viewfinder. sure enough, we reviewed it twice, i was no where to be found. i guess my question is this (and i already know the answer to it) who has the right of way under canopy? and which sky diver is responsable for avoiding collision under this circumstance? this particular sky diver looked like someone slapped his mother when i wasn't in his viewfinder. when he yelled, and started cursing me while we were under canopy, as i said, he was above me, and to my left. his parting remark was "head on a swivel, all the time" the whole incident really chapped my ass though. am i wrong on this one?
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[skymedic 0]

I believe you are in the right....but you need to play defensive driver some times when around shit heads like that...and he is right about the head on a swivel though...
Marc
Because I fly, I envy no man on earth

[fonz 0]

Quote

who has the right of way under canopy?

If I'm not mistaken, the lower canopy has the right of way.
So, if this camera hotshot was above you, it would have been his responsibility not to fly into you.
On the other hand, everybody is supposed to "look before you leap" or in this case look before you turn.
You're not supposed to "cut off" another canopy. Obviously, I can't tell if you did that, for I wasn't there.
Anyway, an experienced skydiver is supposed to be able to deal with less experienced pilots (not knowing anything about how much experience the two of you have).
Alphons
http://www.liacs.nl/~avwerven

[rgoper 0]

You're not supposed to "cut off" another canopy
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on this particular day, the other jumper was above, and behind, and obviously too close to me, we hadn't planned any crw work that i knew of! if i'm cruising under canopy, i "leave a margin for error" just for those types of incidents. the best cure is prevention in the first place. i'm 13 months in the sport, and 250+ sky dives, but that don't mean jack. anybody can go down, no matter how many dives, or how long in the sport. i've certainly lived long enough to realize my mortality, as i'm sure you have as well. i have never met the other jumper, he was from out of state, and was not familiar with the drop zone. haven't seen him since either.
Blue Skies, Hot Days:
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[wildblue 7]

Lower person has the right of way... but... do you really want to use that as your argument when you're falling a couple hundred feet to the earth wrapped in someone's main?
You should be looking all around you under canopy this includes behind you and above you
As you turn to final, look where you're turning, and look to the right (assuming you're turning left to final) to mkae sure you're not going to cut right in on someone that's making a longer final approach - if it looks like you're going to, turn in earlier so you never cross their path or end up in front of them. Canopy's do create a wake behind them, be mindful of that.
And remember, this isn't driving a car, you have to do more than glance to the left, right, or behind you. Know where everyone is at, even if you are supposed to have the right of way. To see what happens when people assume the other person is seeing them/looking out for them
http://www.skydivenet.com/fatalities/fatalities_us_01.html --- take note of #28 and #29
I ain't happy, I'm feeling glad
I got sunshine, in a bag

[Tee 0]

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You should be looking all around you under canopy this includes behind you and above you

This is true, we cannot assume that the other people are always looking out for us. As skydivers we also have a job to make sure that others see us too. Unfortunately, every skydiver under canopy has a blind spot (above and behind them) and even more unfortunate is that some jumpers don't seem to stay out of that which may have been the case in this situation. Tee

• Quote

[wildblue 7]

I want to get one of those signs like they have on semi's to put on the top-back of my canopy
"If you can't see my eyeballs, I can't see you"

But seriously...
You can reduce that blind spot a little by tilting your head back and looking up past the back edge of your canopy.
I ain't happy, I'm feeling glad
I got sunshine, in a bag

[Dutchboy 0]

Canopies are classified as aircraft, and therefore have the same right of way rules. The low man has the right of way, or if at the same altitude the guy to the right. Both of those sound like you.
Just remember that it takes two to collide and one to avoid. It is better to be alive than dead, but in the right.
The Dutchboy
http://www.geocities.com/ppolstra

[gemini 0]

Amen!
Low is right, but being right and dead sucks.
It seems that some of the more experienced jumpers think they own the entire approach. I have seen guys on final when someone does a hook from above and behind them. Since the straight in guys may have bigger or slower mains, the hooker overtakes the low man and yells and cusses because the low man "cut in front".
Gemini
Co Van My Tuong Huu Dong Nam A

[Zennie 0]

Not that I'm a big swooper or anything, but I have been playing with front riser carves as of late. As I'm making my way to where I'm going to initiate the carve I'm looking all over for slower fliers and making adjustments. You can still do your hi performance turn if you plan ahead and just look around. Plus if you're above it's a heckuva lot easier to find a slot (sort of like when you turn & track off a big way) and take it.
Now if the people below suddenly do something weird, like do a 90/180 for no apparent reason, then there might be a legitimate dispute, but if the high person is thinking ahead that shouldn't normally be an issue.
Just my $0.02.
"Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control. Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper."

[freeflir29 0]

Hmmm...let me see it's a bit fuzzy but I seem to remember these words in the military jump briefing.
Rules of the air:
Look before you turn
Turn right to avoid collisions
LOWER JUMPER HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY
I think that pretty much covers this situation.....
The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten- Calvin Coolidge

[ramon 0]

I think low is right.
.. unless you are spiralling down over the landing area to get lower than people on approach..which is a no no @1000k
I pretty much don't hook (that is hard 180 from about 400') unless there is no traffic in my path. It is unfare to spook someone above and below you (assuming you will definitely avoid them.
but even worse, people on final will and can decide to do S turns or sachet right in your swoop path, and...know what they still have right of way...so
I say play it safe

[PhreeZone 20]

Ramon,
I just wsh more people thought like you. I've seen way to many people just get so needing the hook to land, thats all they can do. They forget what a pattern is, that there are slower canopys around and that its not required to hook a canopy to land it. Backing off from a hook is soemthing that more people need to do. Hooking is fine, I do 90 hooks at ~ 250 feet all the time, but Don't do them if slow canopys are around.
A rainy day at the DZ is better then a Sunny day at work

[prost 0]

As far as the sasches in the swoop path is concerned, this person is not in the right. It is not just swoopers that they get in the way of but everyone on final. If you need to bleed of altitude, do it outside the landing area. Quick back and forth S-turns that do not carry you very far to the left and right are acceptable but more than that is not.
William

[Zennie 0]

It's kind of interesting how my approach to approaches changed when I started testing higher performance canopies.
Normally under my Sabre, if I'm a little high I'll use front risers to dive off the extra altitude. On the ellipticals that I've been demoing, I've found myself doing the sashaying a little bit more because it seems like I don't have to do very extreme turning to burn off altitude. It's not the extreme left/rights like I'd have to do with my Sabre to get the same results.
"Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control. Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper."

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

As both a very-busy instructor and professional swooper, I do everything in my power to avoid other traffic in my approach to that all-important final turn. Raeford is a very busy student dropzone. Three separate schools running concurently, with SL, AFF and tandems. Lots of kids on radios being guided to safe landings out in the middle of the landing area. Those of us who swoop the beer line do so to minimize conflict with all that other traffic. Believe me when I tell you that people flying around 1000 feet below me are very much in my way. I do everything in my power to anticipate their turns and approaches. Cut a student off and endanger him (or her) and it's your ass. People at my experience level have no excuse to cut corners just so we get the glory swoop. You were in the right; the other guy was just pissed because he had to alter his line.
Chuck
My webpage HERE

[Phil 0]

You are below - you have the right of way. I've been trained to move away to the right if on collision course. Fast canopy should be given the airspace to land first.
Don't take any shit from anybody. If they are above you - they have to watch out. The only time you want to be looking up is before you throw it out. I usually do a roll to make sure there is nobody above me.
blue ones
phil