How AFF-I's wearing cameras are going to kill students.

[TomNoonan 1]

Let's get back on topic here. Thanks, Tom

Namaste,
Tom Noonan

www.everest-skydive.com

[JWest 0]

On topic.

When I was a student I found inside video to be useful. Since there are ways to reduce the distortion caused by small format cameras the video can be used to roughly depict body position. As this incident points out AFF-Is shooting inside video should have snag-resistant mounts and a helmet cut away for redundancy. Too further reduce the risk of a snag, inside video could be used only by the reserve side AFF-I.

[IJskonijn 45]

I'm not an instructor, but I do have a (former) student opinion on this.

For me, seeing inside camera footage of my AFF jumps supported me in remembering the details of the jump, regardless of optical distortion and what-not.

For me as a student, AFF was a big lesson in sensory overload (along with a huge bag of other essential skills). I did what I had to do only because it was rehearsed extensively by my instructors on the ground, and my memory of the details of the jump were often less than clear. Video helped me with filling in the gaps during debrief and getting everything in the correct order. This in turn helped me with getting the maximum educational value out of each jump.

With that in mind, I think it's a good thing when AFF instructors use inside video during a jump, provided it is mounted in a snag-free (or highly snag-resistant) manner. Optical distortion is a distant second issue, but only very distant.

[peek 21]

IJskonijn

... For me, seeing inside camera footage of my AFF jumps supported me in remembering the details of the jump, regardless of optical distortion and what-not. ...Video helped me with filling in the gaps during debrief and getting everything in the correct order. This in turn helped me with getting the maximum educational value out of each jump.

Thank you for your opinion about that. I hope the "inside video/POV video isn't very good so why have it" crowd is paying attention. You are not the first person who has described why POV cameras are useful in this manner. People need to get used to cameras being used for something other than "good video".

FMI:http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4728457#4728457

(The normal safety caveats apply.)

[pchapman 279]

IJskonijn

For me, seeing inside camera footage of my AFF jumps supported me in remembering the details of the jump,

And of course it is "proof". A student may find it hard to believe that he had a particular body position issue, no matter how amazing the instructor's moment by moment memory and instructional technique. Actually seeing it on video is different, "Uh yeah I guess my legs weren't even, jeez I can't believe I did that, guess I really will have to work on that like you said."

[DSE 5]

peek

Thank you for your opinion about that. I hope the "inside video/POV video isn't very good so why have it" crowd is paying attention. You are not the first person who has described why POV cameras are useful in this manner. People need to get used to cameras being used for something other than "good video".

FMI:http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4728457#4728457

(The normal safety caveats apply.)

Has anyone suggested otherwise somewhere in this thread?

[JohnMitchell 16]

DSE

\
Has anyone suggested otherwise somewhere in this thread?

Hi Spot. I think there was a complaint or two that "inside" video was not the same quality as outside video. No argument, but inside video still has its value, IMHO. It just needs to be done safely (snagproof).

[yoink 321]

JohnMitchell

***\
Has anyone suggested otherwise somewhere in this thread?

Hi Spot. I think there was a complaint or two that "inside" video was not the same quality as outside video. No argument, but inside video still has its value, IMHO. It just needs to be done safely (snagproof).

And instructors (who should know better) must not be distracted by it. That was one of the concerning things for me about the original video - the AFFI was paying more attention to his buddy than his student.

'I'll just switch it on and forget about it. We can just use it for review after the jump...'

[JohnMitchell 16]

yoink

And instructors (who should know better) must not be distracted by it. That was one of the concerning things for me about the original video - the AFFI was paying more attention to his buddy than his student.

That's a very important point. Having worn a camera on many coach and RW jumps, I've worked to manage the distraction of it. Sure, I may think of framing good shots, but still keep my mind on the job.

With not even a camera on my head, the other weekend I was on a Level 1 AFF that was going so well I found myself looking around at the scenery in freefall for a few moments. Mt. Rainier was looking great that day.

[DarekKay 0]

So the AFF-I mounts the GoPro upside down, most likely to reduce the snag risk (compared to a "teletubby" mount), but she leaves a small gap between the GoPro and the helmet?

packrat570

4. you should NEVER be perpendicular to your student on deployment (Good way to get your neck snapped if that thing cracks open and the students legs come up into your head)

That's a good point. However, pilot chute snags can still happen, like in this very similar incident:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTO1PilF-Xg

[dorbie 0]

This is going to get interesting when the student executes their EPs.

[wicodefly 0]

DarekKay

That's a good point. However, pilot chute snags can still happen, like in this very similar incident:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTO1PilF-Xg

Wow, that is one heads up student.

Chance favors the prepared mind.

[DJL 235]

wicodefly

***
That's a good point. However, pilot chute snags can still happen, like in this very similar incident:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTO1PilF-Xg

Wow, that is one heads up student.

Nice, the student had outside video but the AFF-I wore his camer anyway.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[JWest 0]

The title should be how AFF-I are going to be killed by their own cameras.

[rehmwa 2]

DarekKay

So the AFF-I mounts the GoPro upside down, most likely to reduce the snag risk (compared to a "teletubby" mount), but she leaves a small gap between the GoPro and the helmet?

***4. you should NEVER be perpendicular to your student on deployment (Good way to get your neck snapped if that thing cracks open and the students legs come up into your head)

That's a good point. However, pilot chute snags can still happen, like in this very similar incident:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTO1PilF-Xg

Great job, Irene. Heads up student.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DJL 235]

"Great job, Irene. Heads up student. "

Yeah, he's lucky she was there.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DSE 5]

I may be mistaken, but I believe the first-ever AFF instructor fatality was at Cedar Fort, Utah when an AFF instructor was in front of the student. On deployment, the student's feet kicked her in the jaw and snapped her neck.

And this is why during AFFI courses, we're taught to stay off to the side.