billvon 2,991 #1 September 28, 2004 This is not an incident post per se, and I don't want to start a habit of putting fairly minor tunnel injuries in this forum, but this is something of a new phenomena and I just wanted to put a post here so people knew about the potential dangers of wind tunnels. Last week a freeflyer was injured in the Perris tunnel when she went from a sit to more of a stand and landed on the edge of the door in the tunnel. She broke her leg and her heel. There have been a handful of other injuries, from a broken arm to a dislocated elbow to sprained ankles to bloody noses. Nothing more serious yet (fortunately.) There is a tendency to see the tunnel as more of a ride or training tool than an activity all its own, but it is - and it comes complete with its own risks and potential dangers. The fact that there's a very energetic column of moving air, bounded by hard walls and a cheese-grater-like net, mean that you can do some serious damage to yourself if you're not careful. There is a reason they have all those rules (like no sitflying until you can backfly) and it behooves us to both listen to them and practice tunnel safety stuff (like standing or backflying) when possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #2 September 28, 2004 Bill, the way I see it, it before becoming more experimental a person MUST have a good grasp of safe recovery positions. Folding up against a wall and plumeting towards the net without trying to recover (even if that recovery is on your back) is going to guarentee injury. Most often the correct reaction to a botched manuver is the intuitive opposite. (i.e. maybe putting your arm out to stop from hitting a wall is the wrong thing.)---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AirMail 0 #3 September 29, 2004 Quote Nothing more serious yet (fortunately.) A jumper from my home DZ broke his neck a couple of years ago in a wind tunnel. He's still not jumping. PLEASE BE CAREFUL. P--- It's never too late to have a happy childhood. Postal Rodriguez, Muff 3342 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kramer 0 #4 September 29, 2004 Didn't Jon Devore (Alchemy's Camera Guy) injure his shoulder recently in the tunnel too? Be careful in those things guys! The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #5 September 29, 2004 You don’t have to be doing anything particularly experimental to hurt yourself. While I was out in Perris over Easter a dz.comer was working on his fast fall/slow fall in the tunnel (flat), caught a leg on the door going up, this flipped him into a head high position, he lost lift and ended up diving at the opposite wall landing head first. (at least that’s as close as my memory takes me to how it was related to me). One broken neck later and the rest of his training holiday was spent lounging round the pool. Thankfully it wasn’t horribly serious and he was wandering round with little more than a really stiff neck and a pocket full of pills the very next day. I’ll not ID him but if for you all but I’ll PM him to let him know he’s the topic of conversation so maybe he’ll add his memories first hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydive84 0 #6 September 29, 2004 I was in the tunnel for 1/2 hour 2 nights in a row. Was learning to sitfly in there. Was having to work very hard to fall slower than in the sky. Towards the end of the sessions i was feeling really weak in my arms. Turns out i totally fried the nerves in my shoulders and could hardly use my arms for 2 months. Im not a weak guy - think that it was just putting that much stress on them in a way theyd never felt before. Flown in there since and the problem hasnt recurred - guess its a muscle memory thing. Adi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gremlin 0 #7 September 29, 2004 Quote There have been a handful of other injuries, from a broken arm to a dislocated elbow to sprained ankles to bloody noses. Nothing more serious yet (fortunately.) I fractured 2 vertebrae. I was EXTREMELY luck not to break my neck and be paralysed. As posted earlier, whilst practising flat slow fall, I caught the door, got pushed against the wall and fell about 10ft head down onto the wire mesh in the Perris tunnel. As I hit I heard the vertebra crunch. Not a good sound. I had been doing a good bit of weight training before hand and I think that is what saved my neck. Am booked in again in December, (so I can kick ass at the dz.com Eloy boogie) but just want people to be aware that these things can be dangerous and that the risks are very real. I'm drunk, you're drunk, lets go back to mine.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulipod 0 #8 September 29, 2004 I am aware of several incidents including Paralysis from tunnel accidents.... My partner (new to flying) went to high in Orlando and flipped in panic.... barrel role / head down straight through the door! (ouch!) None of that obviously intentional... she was only trying to learn stable belly position but it shows how easy it can happen. Easy solution to this one really - treat tunnels with respect! learn progressions slowly and thoroughly, and dont try to copy very experienced fliers in your first few hours! Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #9 September 29, 2004 I've been to one of the outdoor-tunnels (baggy suits, inflatable matras all around) once before I actualy started freefalling (was still on staticline). And although everything went okay, in hindsight I could also see potential problems with people flipping onto the matras headfirst, with their body getting flipped 'over' you when they get thrown out, causing your neck to fold into nasty poses.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #10 September 29, 2004 Quote Towards the end of the sessions i was feeling really weak in my arms. Turns out i totally fried the nerves in my shoulders and could hardly use my arms for 2 months. Im not a weak guy - think that it was just putting that much stress on them in a way theyd never felt before. About the same thing happened to me. I pinched a nerve in my neck which caused part of my left arm to go numb, lasted about 2 months too. I also faced planted into the net from about 8 feet up when I broke the column of air by hitting the wall once. Luckily I was wearing a full face helmet and only put a big scratch on that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimoke 0 #11 September 29, 2004 about a year ago in Orlando, I was watching a very experienced freeflyer from AZ. carving head down. he was very good and had great control. then he adjusted his speed with his head on the mesh in the center of the chamber and started rotating on his head....it was a very sweet manuver, until the mesh slowly started to sepatate in one square his head was slowly sliding through the floor. as I realized his head would soon fit through and he could become decapitated instantly. the instructor in the tunnel lunged in and knocked him off his axis into the wall. the guy was slightly pissed until they had a discussion out of the windstream. I am glad I didn't witness what was about to happen with a few more revolutions. the walls in the tunnel are very unforgiving just like skydiving one must progress at a reasonable pace. Stay Safe JimOKEThe ground always, remembers where you are! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #12 September 29, 2004 eh? not following here.. what could have decapitated him? isnt Orlando one of the 'suck' varieties with the fans at the top???____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #13 September 29, 2004 >what could have decapitated him? If his helmet enlarged the hole in the net enough to stick his head through, and then the hole popped closed around his neck, and the suprise caused him to cork - it might not have decapitated him, but he would not have been too happy with the result. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skykittykat 0 #14 September 30, 2004 To help avoid those strains/stresses on the muscles - do a really good full stretch beforehand and if it is cold - layer up and keep as warm as you can in the tunnel and keep moving while waiting your turn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #15 October 1, 2004 The fans are at the top. The wind comes up through a net. Think of it like a tennis racket but with steel netting on the racket. I don't know if it would have cut his head off, but he would not have been a happy camper if his head got caught in that net for sure.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #16 October 2, 2004 interesting.. i get it now. You are right he wouldnt be a happy camper, but i doubt it would have taken his head off... I've seen the perris tunnel, but havent been in it yet.. i didnt look at the net very closely (to much amazing flying going on above) but is there a reason the 'grid' isnt fixed so it cannot spread this way?____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #17 October 2, 2004 QuoteDidn't Jon Devore (Alchemy's Camera Guy) injure his shoulder recently in the tunnel too? Be careful in those things guys! Dislocated/hyperextended elbow.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #18 October 2, 2004 Quotebut is there a reason the 'grid' isnt fixed so it cannot spread this way? When you cork out and then come smoking down to the net would you rather hit something solid, like a floor, or have something that gives a little like a trampoline? That might be one reason.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #19 October 2, 2004 >but is there a reason the 'grid' isnt fixed so it cannot spread this way? One night a strand broke. They had it repaired in about an hour. If they were all attached to each other, it would have meant replacing the entire floor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #20 October 2, 2004 ah didnt think of the maintenance issues... probably dont want that many rivets or fasteners in there anyway... more things to possibly come lose and become FOD...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #21 October 4, 2004 oh my gosh guys, I didn't know you could get injured in a wind tunnel... I'll hafta keep that in mind when I go out to SoCal next year for some training. Thanks for the heads up! Sarah Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #22 October 4, 2004 You can get injured walking down the stairs in the morning. The tunnel is a nice "safe" learning environment - especially where you're flying with an instructor as you will be doing. But as with everything in life it has it's risks, just like walking down the stairs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SheeToh 0 #23 October 4, 2004 The windtunnel I recently visited in Malaysia has "wire mess" beneath so when you land on it with full arch you manhood 's goona hurt! Been there at least 5 times before and have not seen any one injured. Blue Skies Sheetoh B-26962 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thomson 0 #24 October 9, 2004 I am based in Gran Canaria. In the period that the open air windtunnel was here (about one year), we had one of our tandemmasters who broke his neck, still not jumping, we had a client seriously hurt his neck. We had an instructor who hurt himself due to a sudden stop of the propeller, causing him to drop down (no auto-rotation) on the net, we had a client cut open her face for the same reason. The Red Bull simulator based in Spain caused a broken neck to one of the chiefs of Empuria a few years ago. The staff in Gran Canaria is forbidden to train in open air tunnels. In the meantime this tunnel has been sold to Korea.-------------------------------------------------- I LOVE THE CUTAWAY HANDLE OF TONYS VECTOR! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #25 October 9, 2004 True, the tunnel can be as dangerous as freefall in some ways. It is critical to listen to the instructors. I've seen too many people that think just because they have X number of jumps that they can just hop in and do whatever they want. My personal experience however is a bit different. The only injury I’ve had is a sharp pain in my wallet! Picture attached!"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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