billvon 3,058 #1 November 30, 2004 You know, I worry a little that so many new tunnels are in the planning stages that we may well reach tunnel saturation in some markets pretty quickly. Within 400 miles of LA alone there is one tunnel running, one tunnel going up and 2-3 more in various stages of planning. It seems pretty clear that the skydiving market will get saturated pretty quickly; will there be enough whuffo demand to make up the difference? Perris is running at around 3:1 jumpers to whuffos ratio now. So if they lost half their experienced jumpers to the new tunnels, they'd have some trouble keeping utilization up. It would be great to have more tunnel facilities, but not so great to see the businesses that cater to skydivers fold while the whuffo-oriented ones stay in business. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #2 November 30, 2004 Just relocate one or two of the towers to Oz. We'll keep them busy.... . I can't help you with your problem though.-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #3 November 30, 2004 I have a feeling not only will jumpers not frequent the "non-dz tunnels" as much, but many of the same tunnels will not be welcoming skydiver business as much as those oriented on, near, or are affiliated with DZ's.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rjackson 0 #4 November 30, 2004 Its all supply and demand. What will be a shame is if is not enough demand the tunnels on DZs will have to make up the short fall another way by cutting costs or raising prices in other areas. You can only raise demand so much by cutting prices. Their operating margins cant be that great. Hope they did their home work when they did the business models--------------------------------------------- Randy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #5 November 30, 2004 This consern had crossed my mind last week as well, as I scanned the SkyVenture web site. Some sites that may impact our operation. --Perris --Hollywood (Universal Studios) --Ontario (Mills Mall) --Silicon Valley (Union Landing) --Las Vegas I'd be interesting to read SkyVenture's marketing plan. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #6 November 30, 2004 I think the Bay Area one intends to market more towards wuffos, and will be 45+ minutes from Byron and Hollister as the closest DZs. But it's also true that I wouldn't have detoured to Perris on Friday night as I made my way back from the family dinner. (btw, fucking cold at 10:30 pm!) The one here will probably do ok - I just don't know how much business it will cost Perris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bubble 0 #7 November 30, 2004 I've wondered the same thing - in the UK there are two plans for tunnel's there is no indication as to which will be open first. They are both in similar areas only being some 30-40miles apart. I'm not sure if there will be enough demand for two tunnel's in the UK, from whuffo's and Skydivers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #8 November 30, 2004 One would hope that the folks investing in the tunnels have included the possibility of market saturation in their profit projection models. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulipod 0 #9 November 30, 2004 We certainly have Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #10 November 30, 2004 Tourists come in and out of Orlando all the time but for other locations I have the same thoughts as you. Being business minded, it made me shudder a little when I started hearing about all of the plans for the states and eurpoe. Tourists are huge in Orlando for the obvious, plenty of people see the huge purple and yellow thing and are curious. They are already there; they don't have to find out about it (hard to get the uninterested informed if they don't know you exist), ask directions for it (walk from hotels), and they can even check it out as they are passing by. LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION I think its all about that and if tunnels become too relyant on the area skydivers to keep up the business, it may get nasty. Esp. if there is another slump in the mkt, terrorist attack, anything that will make people stop spending. Maybe I'm just crazy and don't know a thing. I hope it works out, I really do. For all involved, I hope you make a ton of money and do great jobs. I have doubts but if you can make it past initial barriers, go at it full guns and take em down.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck 0 #11 November 30, 2004 The good news is that the price of tunnel time will drop as saturation occurs. Now I'm sure all the Skyventure folks will jump in and say how low their profit margins are - bullshit - nobody invests millions of dollars trying to make hundreds. Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #12 November 30, 2004 QuoteI've wondered the same thing - in the UK there are two plans for tunnel's there is no indication as to which will be open first. They are both in similar areas only being some 30-40miles apart. The Skyventure Tunnel has reached its funding targets, has planning permission, and I believe the foundations are going down soon. The Bedford Tunnel project is behind the skyventure one in terms of funding .....but competition between both means that us Brit jumpers will benefit from a choice , as opposed to one operator with a monopoly. I reckon more tunnels=more competition =better value for money for consumers=cheaper prices=more people doing tunnel time. More tunnels will prob result in more experienced peeps doing MORE tunnel time as well as capturing more 'whuffo work' through sheer ease of availability and location. I reckon consumer costs will drop with more tunnel availability.....but that wont be all bad for the operators....they'll get more business. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulipod 0 #13 November 30, 2004 QuoteThe Bedford Tunnel project is behind the skyventure one in terms of funding I would have to strongly disagree. Funding is not an issue for us at all. I think our lead time to opening will be smaller too. But only time will tell I guess Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bodyflight.Net 0 #14 December 1, 2004 QuoteThe good news is that the price of tunnel time will drop as saturation occurs. Right now the average cost for a minute of flight time in the US is right about $10 per minute, how much more would it need to drop before it's not considered too expensive anymore? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #15 December 1, 2004 QuoteThe Bedford Tunnel project is behind the skyventure one in terms of funding ..... In that case I stand corrected.......apart from the banner thats the first 'new' news I have heard from the Bedford tunnel project for a while. Bon chance....I wish nothing but success for both projects. Bedfords closer to me.....'fire it up and you have my business.....any links to the latest news ....apart from the banner here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #16 December 1, 2004 Quotehow much more would it need to drop before it's not considered too expensive anymore? Like anything.........the lower the better for the consumer...its as simple as that. Recent time in the Perris Tunnel....I was surprised at what my money got me(pleasantly) ....but still consider it a tad ....just a tad...expensive for the 'experience'...compared to a skydive ( think of everything here not just the freefall) As a training tool , I am convinced it has proven results....nuff said Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulipod 0 #17 December 1, 2004 We have been posting a few times to keep people up to date - and our website has a fairly recent status.... But in short - we will be on site with all parties 7th-9th Dec and are aiming to project our opening date later in Dec. Our renovation work will take a good few months (motor etc arnt really off the shelf!) but would aim for testing sometime around July. But give me a yell if there is anything specific I can answer Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #18 December 1, 2004 Nothing specific.....but obviously I am out of touch. Could you let us know the website address? And are you hiring .....? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Paulipod 0 #19 December 1, 2004 sure... www.bodyflight.co.uk (or click on the banner!) As for hiring - starting in Feb, training to be done in Switzerland.... Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #20 December 1, 2004 QuoteI reckon more tunnels=more competition =better value for money for consumers=cheaper prices=more people doing tunnel time. Not sure this can happen. Take the cost of power in CA......you can't lower the price of operation, so the cost to the consumer can't be dropped below that. It'd make more economic sense to close the tunnel rather than run in the red. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #21 December 1, 2004 Let's see . . . do we really want to do the math? 5 motors of 200 hp each. 200 hp = about 150 kilowatts 150 x 5 = 750 According to http://www.energy.ca.gov/electricity/current_electricity_rates.html energy for a small commercial business from SCE (worse case) ought to be about $0.20/Kwh 750 x 0.20 = or about $150 per hour for energy costs. We should also through in the energy for the rest of the facility (lights, computers, AC) and it's -maybe- $200 per hour. Gotta pay the employees . . . let's be generous and pay them $20/hr and say that we have 5 of them (this is totally unrealistic but it makes the math easier) so that's an additional $100 per hour for a total of $300 so far. Obviously they have to pay off the initial investment of let's call it $2,000,000 and let's amortize that over 5 years and 2000 hours of operation per year, so that's an additional $200 per hour for a total of $500 so far . . . There -must- be some insurance in there and property taxes . . . The way I see it, they probably aren't making more than $100 per hour off the thing.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #22 December 1, 2004 QuoteLet's see . . . do we really want to do the math? Let's see 5 motors of 200 hp each. 200 hp = about 150 kilowatts 150 x 5 = 750 Let's be generous and even call it a megawatt hour. I would find it difficult to believe that it costs more than roughly $100 per hour for energy to run the tunnel. Of course, I -could- be wrong. Of course. Let's just go with your number, though. (I -do- believe that The City of Perris is charging us alot more per Kwh for it's electric drain toward the tunnel, though). Add to that 4 operator costs per hour (you need 4 instructors present each hour the tunnel is run). Plus a counter person down stairs. Uniforms (that seem to fall apart after a month of continuous tunnel blasting) that have to be replaced. Maintenance. --Of the tunnel (a major renovation was just made) --Of the building --Of the grounds --Of the parking lot Advertising. Insurance (let me tell you about -this- escalating cost!) Grounds keep. Loan repayments/month are enormous (to the bank, plus investors) Add to that, shouldn't the investors be allowed to make a profit from their input? I mean, if I had an operation, shouldn't it make sense that it was a wise investment? A profit, not a loss? Or even a break-even. I'm sure I've not mentioned some of the other costs that those of us don't even see as well. If a business doesn't make a profit, it may as well just pass up the opportunity. We'd all love to think any business is there just for us...a philanthropic investment toward our happiness. Wish it were so, here...but that would be just nuts (from a business/investment point of view). ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #23 December 1, 2004 Hey! Stop editing your post while I'm formulating my reply! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #24 December 1, 2004 Yeah, it's a nasty habit I have. I'll post an intial reaction and then think about it for a nano-second and expand on it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Paulipod 0 #25 December 1, 2004 Damn, I should have got you guys to write my business model Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Paulipod 0 #19 December 1, 2004 sure... www.bodyflight.co.uk (or click on the banner!) As for hiring - starting in Feb, training to be done in Switzerland.... Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #20 December 1, 2004 QuoteI reckon more tunnels=more competition =better value for money for consumers=cheaper prices=more people doing tunnel time. Not sure this can happen. Take the cost of power in CA......you can't lower the price of operation, so the cost to the consumer can't be dropped below that. It'd make more economic sense to close the tunnel rather than run in the red. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #21 December 1, 2004 Let's see . . . do we really want to do the math? 5 motors of 200 hp each. 200 hp = about 150 kilowatts 150 x 5 = 750 According to http://www.energy.ca.gov/electricity/current_electricity_rates.html energy for a small commercial business from SCE (worse case) ought to be about $0.20/Kwh 750 x 0.20 = or about $150 per hour for energy costs. We should also through in the energy for the rest of the facility (lights, computers, AC) and it's -maybe- $200 per hour. Gotta pay the employees . . . let's be generous and pay them $20/hr and say that we have 5 of them (this is totally unrealistic but it makes the math easier) so that's an additional $100 per hour for a total of $300 so far. Obviously they have to pay off the initial investment of let's call it $2,000,000 and let's amortize that over 5 years and 2000 hours of operation per year, so that's an additional $200 per hour for a total of $500 so far . . . There -must- be some insurance in there and property taxes . . . The way I see it, they probably aren't making more than $100 per hour off the thing.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #22 December 1, 2004 QuoteLet's see . . . do we really want to do the math? Let's see 5 motors of 200 hp each. 200 hp = about 150 kilowatts 150 x 5 = 750 Let's be generous and even call it a megawatt hour. I would find it difficult to believe that it costs more than roughly $100 per hour for energy to run the tunnel. Of course, I -could- be wrong. Of course. Let's just go with your number, though. (I -do- believe that The City of Perris is charging us alot more per Kwh for it's electric drain toward the tunnel, though). Add to that 4 operator costs per hour (you need 4 instructors present each hour the tunnel is run). Plus a counter person down stairs. Uniforms (that seem to fall apart after a month of continuous tunnel blasting) that have to be replaced. Maintenance. --Of the tunnel (a major renovation was just made) --Of the building --Of the grounds --Of the parking lot Advertising. Insurance (let me tell you about -this- escalating cost!) Grounds keep. Loan repayments/month are enormous (to the bank, plus investors) Add to that, shouldn't the investors be allowed to make a profit from their input? I mean, if I had an operation, shouldn't it make sense that it was a wise investment? A profit, not a loss? Or even a break-even. I'm sure I've not mentioned some of the other costs that those of us don't even see as well. If a business doesn't make a profit, it may as well just pass up the opportunity. We'd all love to think any business is there just for us...a philanthropic investment toward our happiness. Wish it were so, here...but that would be just nuts (from a business/investment point of view). ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #23 December 1, 2004 Hey! Stop editing your post while I'm formulating my reply! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #24 December 1, 2004 Yeah, it's a nasty habit I have. I'll post an intial reaction and then think about it for a nano-second and expand on it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulipod 0 #25 December 1, 2004 Damn, I should have got you guys to write my business model Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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