philh 0 #1 October 26, 2005 Well I've finally flown both of the Uk wind tunnels so I thought I'd share some thoughts for those considering flying in the Uk. As soon I got back from my travels i headed to the Bedford tunnel. Its situated in an MOD (ministry of defence) research institute that is not exactly an attractive space. It reminds me of a run down science block in a comprehensive school. All this changes however once you enter the reception area. Its nicely kitted out with comfortable seating, lounges, breifing rooms, net access etc - very plush. Once i saw the flight chamber my eyes really opened up - its a monster, one enormous space. if you've only flown in skyventure tunnels you are in for a shock. Whilst Perris and Orlando are 12ft in diameter, Bedford as I'm sure you all know is 16ft in diamter, a 1/3 more space. But to me it seemed like so much more than that. It was such a joy to fly in such a large area. The wind is smooth and powerful annd I saw people free flying in little more that baggy pants and a sweat shirt. I found belly and flat flying no problem, when it came to sit it was still a little struggle to get lift needing a slightly modified position from skydiving head up flight invovling wider legs and slightly inclined back. This is the same as I had found (and struggled a bit with) in Perris and Orlando. After 3 trips on consecutive days (hey its only 35mins on the train from Kings cross st Pancras) I had fallen hard for this tunnel. The staff are very helpful and friendly. One slight annoyance is the lack of a timer letting you know how much time you have left. Paul told me he may change this if he gets enough demand for it. So if you agree please post here. Also the viewing of the flight chamber is much more restricted than other tunnels and you cant see your reflection very well in the sections that do have glass.There is a danger of the extra space, if you fuck up you may have a lot more momentum colliding into the wall. But on the other hand you have more space to stop yourself. I highly reccomend going to Lillywhites rugby section and buying a padded shirt, dont underestimate what those walls can do to your joints. Whislt at Bedford I bumped into Rusty Lewis of Orlando fame and told me Airkix (the new name for Skyventure in the UK) was open. I booked myself in straiight away. Heading off to Milton Keynes I wondered why bother? Why fly in a 12ft tunnel when you can fly in a 16ft tunnnel?Both are about the same distance from London. Get the fast train to either and you will be there in just over 30 mins.What other major city has a tunnel (let alone two) so close by?One nicer element is that Airkix is not a desolate Mod site but in a very modern shopping mall which has resteraunts,cinemas, shops and a large indoor ski centre. Like Bedford, Airkix greets you with a nice reception area and helpful staff. Seeing the chamber I missed bedford, its so tiny in comparison. My first few minutes flying time i tried some belly and back flying and had a great time but had a I thought about it I knew that Bedford was my preference. Once I started sit flying the same sturggle too kep lift occured. But not for long, i felt the power go up and then I was flying as comfortable as on a skydive , it was such a blast. I was exstatic. Had my body position improvd? Did the fact that I was wearing a tunnel flight suit rather than my jumpsuit (which I did at Bedford)make the difference? The staff at airkix assured me that it was the power which they claimed is far in excess of other tunnels. I dont have the techinical specs or knowledge to verify this but it certainly seemed that way. So it seems to me that (although Im not able to objectivley confirm this) both tunnel have their own advantages. Airkix seems to have more power and bedford obviously has more space. Each flyer will have to decide which aspect they prefer. But I know I will have both tunnels on my mobile phone and eventually I will be flying in whoever has slots when I want them. Im sure both will be very busy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bodyflight.Net 0 #2 October 26, 2005 Hey! Thanks a bunch for sharing! It's always good to know how everyone's experiences are when they visit! Great reviews and great points to bring up! Glad to hear not all tunnels have timers in the flight chamber... that always bothers me... feels like I'm in the final countdown and besides, personally, I don't care what time it is.. when they turn it off or kick me out.. then I guess I'm done! I guess I don't hold the monopoly anymore for living with an hour of two VWT's... so nice to see them spreading rapidly! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulipod 0 #3 October 26, 2005 Cheers Phil Interesting to see feedback... more useful to work on than 'we had a blast'' Also good for us to know where to set the limits - presently we have restricted our power to about 40% of the motors capacity. We did this to ensure safety... but if a few more % are needed then better we get the comments! Our fan blades will be freed up a little more shortly so hopefully something you prefer then Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydonkey 0 #4 October 26, 2005 Quote Airkix seems to have more power and Bedford Quote They would have had the power cranked down according to how they judged your stability and skills. I watched EIGHT people FREEFLYING at the same time at Bedford (requires more power than one and instructor) and the tunnel was running NOWHERE NEAR full power. Due to the large chamber size, they maybe have to be more cautious compared to Airkix in the case of Freeflyers with less tunnel time, as the consequences of zooming in there would be some degree more dangerous than the smaller chamber tunnels (that’s only my half-assed opinion). I think both tunnels are fantastic in their own right. We in the UK have at last been blessed world leading facilities for once, instead of having to travel half way round the globe for them (now we just need to invent a sun generator). I really hope it doesn’t turn into a pissing contest between their customers. Paul and Simon are the two nicest blokes you could wish to meet and it al seems friendly so far. Airkix might be slightly safer to learn and watch body position for freeflying and be more accessible for the “Funride” trade. Bedford on the other hand has got to win hands down for Four-way, EIGHT-way and more experienced Freeflying. But rather that finding negatives with either lets just say WHOOHOOO we got TWO Kick-ass tunnels Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vt1977 0 #5 October 26, 2005 I'm not really bothered either way about a timer in the tunnel but I know what you mean about reflective surfaces... When I was in Perris I found the mirror in their tunnel SO helpful - a coach can be giving you signals but there really is no substitute for being able to see exactly what you are doing in real time. I think a mirror would be a great addition in Bedford. I'm yet to fly Airkix but I intend to be spending as much time as I can at the tunnels over the winter... Vicki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #6 October 26, 2005 QuoteI think a mirror would be a great addition in Bedford. - how about several (like 3 at angles to one another) so you can see yourself from behind too? (not that I like looking at my own arse or anything - just I figure it would be a good training tool to be able to look at a couple of different aspects of your body position at one go). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites efex 0 #7 October 26, 2005 Hey Paul, Been playing with lasers in my lab today and realised you could use the same sort of half silvered mirror coating on your windows to allow people to see themselves, yet for observers to look in without any problems as we do for laser interferometry. Marc Warwick University Skydiving Club Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydonkey 0 #8 October 26, 2005 Quote - how about several (like 3 at angles to one another) so you can see yourself from behind too? How about all the way round for a funky "Enter the dragon" kind of effect? Might make the doors a bit hard to find though Quote the same sort of half silvered mirror coating I believe the correct technical term is "Boy racer window film" How about some Fluffy dice "Hanging" from the floor to carve around Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Paulipod 0 #9 October 26, 2005 All I will say is... Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites efex 0 #10 October 26, 2005 QuoteHow about some Fluffy dice "Hanging" from the floor definately Warwick University Skydiving Club Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Newbie 0 #11 October 27, 2005 Thanks for the comparison reviews, makes for interesting reading. I'll second what Skydonkey said and give a big thumbs up and a tip of the cap with a loud WOOHOO for 2 tunnels. Talk about all your Christmases coming at once Reflective surfaces/mirrors would be a great idea, i second that for what it's worth. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites daniel_owen_uk 0 #12 October 27, 2005 Bit (well a lot) of a noob really so ignore me if I am being a dumb ass, but when I was there what I though would have helped is something to write on when in the holding area. On a fair few occasions I had more than one instructor in the tunnel and then one was giving me advice when I was waiting, would have been much easier with a white board or something similar.__________________ BOOM Headshot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Stumpy 284 #13 October 27, 2005 If you are talking about Bedford i thought they had one! (They certainly did when i was last there) Maybe it was temporarily absent.....Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skykittykat 0 #14 October 29, 2005 Interesting to read about your views on both tunnels. OK, so the UK is the only place to open 2 tunnels within 10 miles of each other I think the most important things to go by when choosing which tunnel to fly in is: Number 1 - Instructors available - who is the best? Gary and Mark are obviously not going to be in the UK full time unless they re-locate there. Apart from them, the best tunnel instructor out there in the UK is Rusty Lewis. Number 2 - turbulence - which tunnel is the less turbulent to fly in. Number 3 - cost. From personal experience (35 hours tunnel time) - and the points above, I prefer Orlando or Eloy over Perris - not that Perris does not have a good tunnel, but there is less turbulence in the Orlando/Eloy tunnels and you have the staff/coaches which are the best who work at Orlando and Eloy. My 2 cents worth.... Liz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites UKjumpjack 0 #15 October 29, 2005 Quotethe best tunnel instructor out there in the UK is Rusty Lewis I think that depends on the type of flying you want to do - I would go for coaching from someone like Steve Hamilton if I wanted to learn FS A bit difficult to measure 'best' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites efex 0 #16 October 29, 2005 Some people prefer different instructors based on teaching style and personality. I know some instructors who people love and others hate for those very reasons. Warwick University Skydiving Club Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stevehamiltonxl 0 #17 October 29, 2005 Hope I'm not one of the ones you hate Marc..... I'm trying my best Why not come along to a Team Bodyflight camp and check us out...slots available for 3rd and 4th December....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites UKFSChick 0 #18 October 29, 2005 I agree with Liz...for most people the quality of coaching you get is what will determine how much you get out of a tunnel experience, whether that tunnel is in Orlando, MK, Bedford, Perris etc.. That's particularly true if you're working on personal skills one-on-one. You don't need 16ft to learn to fly your body...but you do need a damn good coach with plenty of coaching experience (for whatever the skills are that you're working on), empathy and intuition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skykittykat 0 #19 October 30, 2005 QuoteI think that depends on the type of flying you want to do - I would go for coaching from someone like Steve Hamilton if I wanted to learn FS Both Rusty and Steve can coach FS or freefly in the tunnel and do it damn well. I didn't realise that Steve was back in the UK full time to coach. Carrying on from Emma wrote, both have the empathy and intuition (as well as skill) to make them awesome coaches. Liz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites efex 0 #20 October 30, 2005 hey steve, no sure if you meant me, but your definatly not one of the ones i hate In fact I dont think I have every met a coach I personally didnt like. I was refering to comments I have had from some of the people I have coached. Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stevehamiltonxl 0 #21 October 30, 2005 I agree with other's comments....basically, wherever you go it's a good idea to find a coach to work with you to maximize the use of the time and have some clear objectives about what you want to learn/achieve. I see lots of people flying by themselves and trying to do stuff for an hour at a time when a coach could have fixed things literally in 2 minutes. I know that it's fun to just fly anyway but you really can steepen your learning curve with a little guidance.....hope it doesn't sound like I'm just shamelessly plugging coaching but......did I mention the camp in December ?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites miniskydiver 0 #22 October 30, 2005 I've just spent an hour at Bedford this weekend doing Free Jive's (Chris Lynch / Rob Silver) tunnel camp. I was very impressed with the tunnel, facilities and friendliness / professionalism of the staff at Bodyflight. Obviously, there are things to work on - it's only been open a month - but Paul was always keen to listen to ideas on how to improve his great facility. With regards to the size of the tunnel for newbies. I was learning to backfly and sitfly and spent most of the time on the wire mesh. The instructors keep the power down until they think you're ready for more. It was only when I was a bit more confident / skilled (?) that the power was turned up and I was able to fly about a bit - thus reducing the chance of building up momentum and crashing into a wall at speed. By the way Chris, sorry about flying my leg into your balls! I hope you're still OK! Big Tony Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites UKFSChick 0 #23 October 31, 2005 QuoteBy the way Chris, sorry about flying my leg into your balls! I hope you're still OK! Seems like ball-crushing is par for the course for the hardened tunnel coach, if you scan through some of these comments! (Tracie Harrison's feedback on Gary and Mark's soon-to-be-at Airkix November camps, near the bottom). Amazing how limbs can fling themselves unwilled into the most unwelcome of places in a wind tunnel. Maybe all coaches should wear a box, like cricketers? That would add an interesting 'look' to the camp photos...(And a new meaning to Block 16?!) Sorry, is this off-topic? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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vt1977 0 #5 October 26, 2005 I'm not really bothered either way about a timer in the tunnel but I know what you mean about reflective surfaces... When I was in Perris I found the mirror in their tunnel SO helpful - a coach can be giving you signals but there really is no substitute for being able to see exactly what you are doing in real time. I think a mirror would be a great addition in Bedford. I'm yet to fly Airkix but I intend to be spending as much time as I can at the tunnels over the winter... Vicki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #6 October 26, 2005 QuoteI think a mirror would be a great addition in Bedford. - how about several (like 3 at angles to one another) so you can see yourself from behind too? (not that I like looking at my own arse or anything - just I figure it would be a good training tool to be able to look at a couple of different aspects of your body position at one go). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efex 0 #7 October 26, 2005 Hey Paul, Been playing with lasers in my lab today and realised you could use the same sort of half silvered mirror coating on your windows to allow people to see themselves, yet for observers to look in without any problems as we do for laser interferometry. Marc Warwick University Skydiving Club Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydonkey 0 #8 October 26, 2005 Quote - how about several (like 3 at angles to one another) so you can see yourself from behind too? How about all the way round for a funky "Enter the dragon" kind of effect? Might make the doors a bit hard to find though Quote the same sort of half silvered mirror coating I believe the correct technical term is "Boy racer window film" How about some Fluffy dice "Hanging" from the floor to carve around Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulipod 0 #9 October 26, 2005 All I will say is... Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efex 0 #10 October 26, 2005 QuoteHow about some Fluffy dice "Hanging" from the floor definately Warwick University Skydiving Club Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie 0 #11 October 27, 2005 Thanks for the comparison reviews, makes for interesting reading. I'll second what Skydonkey said and give a big thumbs up and a tip of the cap with a loud WOOHOO for 2 tunnels. Talk about all your Christmases coming at once Reflective surfaces/mirrors would be a great idea, i second that for what it's worth. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daniel_owen_uk 0 #12 October 27, 2005 Bit (well a lot) of a noob really so ignore me if I am being a dumb ass, but when I was there what I though would have helped is something to write on when in the holding area. On a fair few occasions I had more than one instructor in the tunnel and then one was giving me advice when I was waiting, would have been much easier with a white board or something similar.__________________ BOOM Headshot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #13 October 27, 2005 If you are talking about Bedford i thought they had one! (They certainly did when i was last there) Maybe it was temporarily absent.....Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skykittykat 0 #14 October 29, 2005 Interesting to read about your views on both tunnels. OK, so the UK is the only place to open 2 tunnels within 10 miles of each other I think the most important things to go by when choosing which tunnel to fly in is: Number 1 - Instructors available - who is the best? Gary and Mark are obviously not going to be in the UK full time unless they re-locate there. Apart from them, the best tunnel instructor out there in the UK is Rusty Lewis. Number 2 - turbulence - which tunnel is the less turbulent to fly in. Number 3 - cost. From personal experience (35 hours tunnel time) - and the points above, I prefer Orlando or Eloy over Perris - not that Perris does not have a good tunnel, but there is less turbulence in the Orlando/Eloy tunnels and you have the staff/coaches which are the best who work at Orlando and Eloy. My 2 cents worth.... Liz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UKjumpjack 0 #15 October 29, 2005 Quotethe best tunnel instructor out there in the UK is Rusty Lewis I think that depends on the type of flying you want to do - I would go for coaching from someone like Steve Hamilton if I wanted to learn FS A bit difficult to measure 'best' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efex 0 #16 October 29, 2005 Some people prefer different instructors based on teaching style and personality. I know some instructors who people love and others hate for those very reasons. Warwick University Skydiving Club Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevehamiltonxl 0 #17 October 29, 2005 Hope I'm not one of the ones you hate Marc..... I'm trying my best Why not come along to a Team Bodyflight camp and check us out...slots available for 3rd and 4th December....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UKFSChick 0 #18 October 29, 2005 I agree with Liz...for most people the quality of coaching you get is what will determine how much you get out of a tunnel experience, whether that tunnel is in Orlando, MK, Bedford, Perris etc.. That's particularly true if you're working on personal skills one-on-one. You don't need 16ft to learn to fly your body...but you do need a damn good coach with plenty of coaching experience (for whatever the skills are that you're working on), empathy and intuition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skykittykat 0 #19 October 30, 2005 QuoteI think that depends on the type of flying you want to do - I would go for coaching from someone like Steve Hamilton if I wanted to learn FS Both Rusty and Steve can coach FS or freefly in the tunnel and do it damn well. I didn't realise that Steve was back in the UK full time to coach. Carrying on from Emma wrote, both have the empathy and intuition (as well as skill) to make them awesome coaches. Liz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efex 0 #20 October 30, 2005 hey steve, no sure if you meant me, but your definatly not one of the ones i hate In fact I dont think I have every met a coach I personally didnt like. I was refering to comments I have had from some of the people I have coached. Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevehamiltonxl 0 #21 October 30, 2005 I agree with other's comments....basically, wherever you go it's a good idea to find a coach to work with you to maximize the use of the time and have some clear objectives about what you want to learn/achieve. I see lots of people flying by themselves and trying to do stuff for an hour at a time when a coach could have fixed things literally in 2 minutes. I know that it's fun to just fly anyway but you really can steepen your learning curve with a little guidance.....hope it doesn't sound like I'm just shamelessly plugging coaching but......did I mention the camp in December ?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miniskydiver 0 #22 October 30, 2005 I've just spent an hour at Bedford this weekend doing Free Jive's (Chris Lynch / Rob Silver) tunnel camp. I was very impressed with the tunnel, facilities and friendliness / professionalism of the staff at Bodyflight. Obviously, there are things to work on - it's only been open a month - but Paul was always keen to listen to ideas on how to improve his great facility. With regards to the size of the tunnel for newbies. I was learning to backfly and sitfly and spent most of the time on the wire mesh. The instructors keep the power down until they think you're ready for more. It was only when I was a bit more confident / skilled (?) that the power was turned up and I was able to fly about a bit - thus reducing the chance of building up momentum and crashing into a wall at speed. By the way Chris, sorry about flying my leg into your balls! I hope you're still OK! Big Tony Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UKFSChick 0 #23 October 31, 2005 QuoteBy the way Chris, sorry about flying my leg into your balls! I hope you're still OK! Seems like ball-crushing is par for the course for the hardened tunnel coach, if you scan through some of these comments! (Tracie Harrison's feedback on Gary and Mark's soon-to-be-at Airkix November camps, near the bottom). Amazing how limbs can fling themselves unwilled into the most unwelcome of places in a wind tunnel. Maybe all coaches should wear a box, like cricketers? That would add an interesting 'look' to the camp photos...(And a new meaning to Block 16?!) Sorry, is this off-topic? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
