Tunnelbunny 0 #1 March 29, 2006 Hi, have been lurking for a while and have a q for the more experienced! With world champion skydivers now regularly coming to the UK to run camps etc, I am wondering if there is any point going to the USA for 4-way team training this year? I just got an email from Bodyflight announcing 2-on-2 4way camps in June with Gary Beyer and Mark Kirkby - Airspeed (I would put a link but I can't find one!). This is on top of the camps at Airkix and Odyssey coming over to Bedford. So my q is, why should a UK team like mine go all the way to Florida (or Az, whatever) for a 2-week, 100-jump camp that will cost over 2000 pounds each (jumps, packing, flights, accomm, coaching - exclusive of tunnel time), when we can get more freefall time with more intensive coaching for less than half the cost by doing all our 4-way terminal training at Bedford? (Of course add in a couple of weekends exit training in the UK!) Being able to do all the blocks in a tunnel is brilliant (we are not doing ALL this year but maybe next!) and now we have top coaches here too. On organised camps all the costs are lower because we dont have to fly the coaches here *just* for us. So I am wondering now if we should bother to go to the US and just train here. Although I will miss the donuts and getting a tan!Sam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #2 March 29, 2006 Why are you asking? Sounds like you have it figured out.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tunnelbunny 0 #3 March 29, 2006 LOL... I keep thinking I must have missed something! The 2-week camp is a big thing for us Brits, it's the way we have always done things (like a nice cuppa tea and gossiping on bad weather days). My team already has plans to go to the US but this seems like a no-brainer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pr0ject42 0 #4 March 29, 2006 You can not replace freefall with tunnel. I've seen it with my team where we will do blocks well in the tunnel, take them out into the sky and even at terminal we get tweaks in them that aren't allowing them to close properly. Like it or not, your subconcious goes off of the visual cues given to you in the tunnel (i.e. how close the walls are) that you won't get in the air. Hell, 2000 pounds for all of that is a freaking steal! It is always about $2000 US for an Airspeed camp and that is without any jumps, airfare or accomodations. Take advantage of your exchange rates and be a better team when it comes time to compete! BTW the above opinion was fostered directly by Mr. Gary Beyer himself. Feel free to ask him about it when he is out there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tunnelbunny 0 #5 March 29, 2006 Quotethe above opinion was fostered directly by Mr. Gary Beyer himself. Yes I hear your point. But was he talking about a 16 foot tunnel? The tweaks would likely be less than in a smaller tunnel - although granted the walls are still there for reference . We can get 1hr 20 mins per person, 66% of which is 2-on-2, for only 500 pounds each - rather than 2000 each! Which is why the comparison... I guess we should do both! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #6 March 29, 2006 Do all the tunnel you want... but one bad landing will take out an entire team's chances at anything. The benefits of training at a place like Skydive AZ are huge: awesome weather, fast and reliable planes, big tunnel, world-class coaching, etc, etc... There's a reason so many world/national champion teams call a place like that "home" and that's not just the belly-fliers either. Some of the best CReW, freefly, and freestyle teams train there too. Teams like Airspeed were trouncing the competition long before the big tunnels started sprouting. Obviously there's more to excellence than a lot of tunnel time.NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulipod 0 #7 March 29, 2006 Quotewhy should a UK team like mine go all the way to Florida Dont get me wrong - I think everyone should stay in the UK and train here But I think I may still be tempted just cus I like a holiday... (and not had one for a while!) Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #8 March 30, 2006 There is also a lot to be said for getting out of your normal environment from a focus point of view. The US does have the advantage particularly at Perris and Eloy, of the tunnel being walking distance from the emplaning point. Having said that, Bedford is now starting to see a lot of the continental teams i guess due to size, convenience, cost, and probably the fact the exchange rate not being so good at the moment for us. I would have liked to go to Eloy at christmas, however for the price of the flight to Arizona, i got a flight, accommodation and about 20 jumps in spain. Its no contest really....Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pr0ject42 0 #9 March 30, 2006 Quote Yes I hear your point. But was he talking about a 16 foot tunnel? The tweaks would likely be less than in a smaller tunnel - While he was still raving about the Bedford tunnel, size isn't the issue. It is lack of riding to altitude in a plane, no exits and too many points of reference that make it dissimilar from your average competition day. Don't get me wrong, I love tunnel time and I'd be super stoked to get in the Bedford tunnel, but so far nothing tops being able to drill something for a bit in the tunnel then head right to the DZ and put it into practice. Also, as stated before, canopy control is just as much of a requirement of doing 4-way as being able to turn points. Frap in and the rest of your team is going to have some troubles building any formation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bodyflight.Net 0 #10 March 30, 2006 adventure, fun, comraderie, bonding... just a few things taking a trip can do for you, as opposed to staying home..and as you mentioned... the donuts! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #11 March 30, 2006 Quoteadventure, fun, comraderie, bonding... I agree v important, you get to focus more while you are away. Plus of course the canopy stuff - all important parts of a training schdedule. So we get that covered with a couple of weekends in Spain, a bad ass 4way tunnel camp in the UK, money saved by all, boss is happy, Uk skydiving gets better by the month. UK Nationals is gonna go off this year, especially with camps like this so close to the date as a little 'refresher'..or even the main part of training. Very cool. Expect the standards to skyrocket in the UK, there is no excuse not to now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicodemus 0 #12 March 30, 2006 Tunnels are really amazing, fun, educational training aids. Your flying abilty will skyrocket with a combination of tunnel time and a good coach. Everyone should use them! But they're not 'skydiving'. They're freefall machines. You can practice freefall skills in them. That's it. Which is brilliant. But... If you were a Brit and were into golf, and the world's greatest golfers suddenly started coaching at your local driving range, you'd jump at the chance, and I'm sure your swing would improve loads, and that would be cool. But you'd only get better at one part of your sport. In one type of environment. So... Would you still be tempted by a nice golfing holiday in Florida, on one of the world's best courses, where you can meet friends, relax, enjoy the weather, demo some new clubs, show yourself how all that driving practice has improved your game in general and, well, PLAY GOLF, not just practice it? Or would you spend the whole winter teeing off over and over and over in the UK? I'd do as much UK based training as possible, then TAKE THE HOLIDAY. And I'm not even INTO golf... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #13 March 30, 2006 QuoteYour flying abilty will skyrocket with a combination of tunnel time and a good coach Yeah...There's nothing better for 4way skills than 2 on 2 with top coaches... Oh. Other than maybe 3 on 1 with top coaches, as Natasha Montgomery could attest . 4 years in the sport (I think?) and US National Champion. Amazing. If only money was no object. Edited to add: Nice point about the golf thing BTW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UKFSChick 0 #14 March 31, 2006 QuoteThere's nothing better for 4way skills than 2 on 2 with top coaches... Oh. Other than maybe 3 on 1 with top coaches I would say that, for an existing 4way TEAM, 2 on 2 is better than 3 on 1. That way you still get to have the team flow thing going on with at least one other member of the team, even though your opposite and piece partner are pros. It's also good to be able to watch your own piece partner fly with a pro while you stand in the door. You can see what the coach is doing to make his or her life easier (compared to what you may be doing!). It can 'clean up' 4way issues much more quickly. And having the feedback of 2 coaches (even if you already have another coach, as they see different things/ explain them in different words) is invaluable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpinDoctor 0 #15 March 31, 2006 QuoteTeams like Airspeed were trouncing the competition long before the big tunnels started sprouting. Obviously there's more to excellence than a lot of tunnel time. I may be wrong here.... but I think I heard that the Golden Knights used to trounce everybody way back, as they were the only team that had access to a wind tunnel.----------------------- Connextion: British 8 Way Team www.bodyflight.co.uk ----------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
