BMFin 0 #1 February 19, 2007 Hi ! I could not find with a search.. Why is it so expensive ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #2 February 19, 2007 It's only $10-$13 a minute. Much cheaper than skydiving when you compare minute to minute.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #3 February 19, 2007 Yeah but you don't fly us around on an aerial sight seeing tour first. "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #4 February 19, 2007 QuoteIt's only $10-$13 a minute. Much cheaper than skydiving when you compare minute to minute.which can be divided between participants, and with which you usually have a coach (where usually in skydiving you have to multiply costs). Tunnel is specially expensive because you don't go to the tunnel for 4 minutes a day usually...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #5 February 19, 2007 Because it's what the market will bear.....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #6 February 19, 2007 Try 20 euros/min over here Still cheaper than skydiving (25 euros or more), but EUR 20 = USD 25. Meaning we pay DOUBLE. And meaning that a trip to the US is worthwhile with even not so much tunneltime. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #7 February 19, 2007 You might find some enlightenment here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2634320;search_string=build%20tunnel;#2634320 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #8 February 19, 2007 QuoteYou might find some enlightenment here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2634320;search_string=build%20tunnel;#2634320 So are you saying that the reason for the price are the investments made at the start ? the figures mentioned in your link didnt sound that high to me... Couple of millions here and there. Small potatos.. To me it just looks like the markets are simply Oligopolistic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #9 February 19, 2007 The university I went to had a research wind tunnel, 8 x 11 feet. The cost to use it per hour for research was very similar to what the vertical wind tunnels charge. They're just expensive to run (and they have big loans to pay off too). Most of the testing they did at that tunnel was cars (Ford tests all their new models there), sailboat keels, and buildings. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #10 February 22, 2007 - Upfront investment (Skyventure, land, building contracters, etc) - Power costs (not, by any means insignificant) - Profit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #11 February 26, 2007 couple of millions here and there is small potatoes? maybe for big business, but break down the numbers say you borrow $5,000,000 to build a tunnel. on a 10 year loan that's ~$61,000 per month just in loan payment.... if the land was included in that. that means that if you run the tunnel for 8 paid hours/day, every day of the month, just your loan costs you $300/hr of tunnel time. (on a 5 yr loan it's $421/hr) now add $100/hr for power now add payroll now add supplies now add overead for maintenance now add $100 for epower for any non-paid tunneltime... training/staff time/comp time/etc.. now consider that 8 solid hours of operation per day is a dream when a tunnel first starts up. more than 6 decent tunnels spread around the country and mroe opening up in other countries, skydivers won't be flocking in to fill it like used to happen when skyventure orlando was the only game in town... er.. the world. how many jumpers are you going to get on a warn, calm, sunny saturday? this means that you need lots of whuffo traffic.. and that takes time to build... it also takes an advertising budget. now... why the UK bodyflight place is so expensive (~2x US tunnel time), when they advertise lower overhead due to no build costs, baffles me. is electricity really 10x more expensive in the uk? Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #12 February 26, 2007 Quotethat means that if you run the tunnel for 8 paid hours/day, every day of the month, just your loan costs you $300/hr of tunnel time. (on a 5 yr loan it's $421/hr) now add $100/hr for power now add payroll now add supplies now add overead for maintenance now add $100 for epower for any non-paid tunneltime... training/staff time/comp time/etc.. best to sell a lot of t-shirts and hats and patches ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #13 February 26, 2007 yup if you've ever looked that what whuffos pay for tunnel time, it's ongodly silly ~20-25/min. the margins are much higher but it requires more bodies through the goor since they probably only buy 2 min each. Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulipod 0 #14 February 26, 2007 Quotenow... why the UK bodyflight place is so expensive (~2x US tunnel time), when they advertise lower overhead due to no build costs, baffles me. is electricity really 10x more expensive in the uk? A few reasons really - if you are specifically asking why our non-new build is not cheaper than a new build. 1. Although our power is reasonably priced for the market - we have a tunnel with a volume of air which is considerably larger. More air - more running cost compare our normal 1.5-2MW with other facilities. 2. Geographic market economy. almost EVERTHING! is twice the price in the UK to the US. An exchange rate of 2-1 sees to this. Good comparison would be the price of a burger in Mac D's. 3. Most overheads are larger here. Staff costs... tax (ouch try living here!)... rent etc (land prices are always a good comparison) Same reasoning I guess that a new build skyventure in the UK is twice the cost of a new build skyventure in the US - there is a better comparison. Happy to answer any questions though! Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #15 February 26, 2007 riiight.. the airflow.. i forgot how much bigger that tunnel is. Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jewels 0 #16 February 27, 2007 Quotethis means that you need lots of whuffo traffic.. and that takes time to build... it also takes an advertising budget. Actually, though, if you factor in the additional price to the consumer for the pre-flight instruction, two minute first-timers can be lucrative. Bring on the tourists! (Not really--keep the tourists on the ski slopes. More tourists means that it's harder to book time when the whole world wants to fly, but I'm sure that our tunnel's owners would rather book an hour of first-timers than to sell a lot of flat-rate one hour blocks.)TPM Sister #102 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #17 February 27, 2007 Quote Actually, though, if you factor in the additional price to the consumer for the pre-flight instruction, two minute first-timers can be lucrative. Bring on the tourists! (Not really--keep the tourists on the ski slopes. More tourists means that it's harder to book time when the whole world wants to fly, but I'm sure that our tunnel's owners would rather book an hour of first-timers than to sell a lot of flat-rate one hour blocks.) that's what i was saying. whuffos generate more money per unit time. However, the overall revenue per customer is lower so you need more of them in order to make it work. it's just like skydiving. your funjumpers will keep the plane flying, but you make money off the tandems... Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #18 February 27, 2007 Quotecouple of millions here and there is small potatoes? maybe for big business, but break down the numbers say you borrow $5,000,000 to build a tunnel. on a 10 year loan that's ~$61,000 per month just in loan payment.... if the land was included in that. that means that if you run the tunnel for 8 paid hours/day, every day of the month, just your loan costs you $300/hr of tunnel time. (on a 5 yr loan it's $421/hr) now add $100/hr for power now add payroll now add supplies now add overead for maintenance now add $100 for epower for any non-paid tunneltime... training/staff time/comp time/etc.. If you count that to a 20 year loan its 87$ / hour + interests and other expenses (with the same numbers as u gave...) 5,000,000$ / 20 / 12 / 30 / 8 = ~87$ Sure there are lots of other expenses like you said, but the loan it self doesnt make nearly as much as you said... EDIT: can you explain me how did you come up with your calculations ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #19 February 27, 2007 At 20 years, interest becomes a VERY significant factor... the monthly paymenton 5million would still be ~$42,000 / 30 / 8 = $175/hr. still a significant amount. ooh.. anotherthing i forgot to add in there is insurance... very non-trivial. the point stands that running a tunnel is not as cheap as you wish it would be. a busy tunnel will profit, but they have lots of costs to recoup that will temper that. Now, will they drop the price once the loans are paid off? If the tunnel was filling up and attracting more business wasn't a concern, would you? Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brettski74 0 #20 February 27, 2007 Quote At 20 years, interest becomes a VERY significant factor... the monthly paymenton 5million would still be ~$42,000 / 30 / 8 = $175/hr. still a significant amount. I agree pretty much with what you're saying. What interest rate are you using? It seems around 8%. For the purposes of a simple discussion, it's good enough to illustrate the point, but I'm curious as to what are you basing this rate on. In terms of downward pressure on prices, again, I think you're right. It will take external pressures to force prices lower. This may happen as more tunnels are built, but I'm not sure how fast that will happen, if at all. I wouldn't expect any great change anytime soon, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #21 February 27, 2007 i was using 8% and a basic mortgage calculator. the tunnels are so geographically separate that it may take quite a while for that to happen. bottom line is that whuffos are where the money is, and if whuffos keep coming to the tunnels and paying top dollar, there's no reason for the operators to bring prices down for skydivers/tunnelrats unless they're just really cool folk. Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
