Clearing Airspace

[jhus 0]

Can someone give me a heads up on procedures for clearing the airspace above you. If you look up and there is someone right there, what do you do? Do you just track as hard as possible and open at your planned altitude- you can't really keep your eyes on someone above you and track away at the same time (unless you are really good). Or would you try to track away and pull at an unusually low altitude? What if you look up and see a large formation falling right on top of you?

[ClayFowler 0]

Well...when you feel comfortable with it....barrel roll while tracking (slowly so you get a good scan) I free fly so it's easy to clear around 4,000 from a sit or stand. I pull at 3,000. If you are one of the dinosaur belly fliers (or students) Practice tracking on your back. Keep altitude aware!!!!!!! As far as being under a large formation. I would try to get right in the middle of it. The camera flyer should pull when every one else tracks. ( hope he doesnt have a mal!!) I cant imagine that being any lower than 3500 unless it's a highly experienced team screwing around. Seen it! When they start tracking and the camera flyer dumps.....so shall you. Do what you can to stay out of this situation though. Take a peek around during the dive and try to remain aware of your surroundings.

[lazerq3 0]

Althought it is always important to no where everyone is around you I was always taught that low man has the right of way therfore it is the responcibility of the high man to get out of your way. Although it is good to check your space you shouldnt have to worry about someone above you. They should be getting out of your way. When I had 22 jumps I was invited to jion in on a 12 way. When it came time to brake I thought holy shit were do I go? There was people all around and below me. And I knew it my responcibility to get away from them. I didnt expect them to have to barrol roll to look for me. They did there job and I did mine and anyone above me did theres and we all landed with NO incedent!!!
jason

[FallinWoman 1]

It IS the responsibility of the high man to get out of the way, but I don't ever TRUST that everyone is as aware as I am. I always check and clear. If there is someone above me, I track perpendicular to the wind line. If there was a large formation above me, I would track like mad and check and probably end up pulling a bit lower than my usual 2600-2800ft.
Just my .02!!
Anne

[ClayFowler 0]

Lazer; In my ten years in the military I often HAD to trust my life to friends, Co-workers, and sometimes people I didnt even know. Just the hazards of the job. Now....I dont trust a soul in the air because I dont have to. A guy I know from Key West was trusting a co-worker to clear his airspace below. After the CCT jackass came through his canopy and knocked him unconcious he fell the rest of the way to the ground with two cells inflated (No AAD). He bounced about 7 feet off the ground. He somehow managed to live and is still a dive instructor at the Navy Dive School Key West. The video was nasty and I dont want to experience it first hand. DTA!!!!!

[PhreeZone 20]

Check out the first video on Wildblue's website http://www.wildbluesky.com/skypics/pictures.html to see what happens on break off when one person is lower then the other. He happend to carve in to our group as we hit break altitude and was right below me as we started to track. He is on his back and I am right above him.... If we had more altitude I would have rolled just to make for a good video Whoa... That was cool!

[RemiAndKaren 0]

Thats why its CRUCIAL to track flat....
I'm not the world best tracker (even fairly tall at 6'2, being 230 Lbs the laws of physics dont help...) but it still surprises me to see people fall below me (smaller people at that) on break off...
That being said, I'd rather be above and be the one who needs to give way to someone below me: this way I can see them and track clear of them.
Bottom line:
1 - turn flat on break off, 180 deg from the center of formation and de-arch (this aint a Delta, its a track!);
2 - extend ur legs while bringing ur arms in a cross position (this starts your forward movement without pitching you down)and pick your heading
3 - then roll your shoulders down and bring your arms along your body, slightly below it, keeping your gutt sucked in.
4 - keep looking right left (you should have some view of above with peripheral vision) and below and correct your course if you have people close by
5 - BIG WAVE, tuck your legs to your but to stop the forward movement.. dump
If you happen to go low on a formation: NEVER QUIT! go to the side of it, looking sideways, and fight to get back up for the entire dive, and only track off when the rest of the group does. Nothing's more dangerous then someone who leaves at 8000 feet and tracks off....
I know this wont address proximity between different groups. For this, if on a jump you're too close and you left 5 seconds, leave more the next time and tell the people jumping after you that on the jump before, 5 sec wasnt enough... (if you cant learn from your experience, what can you learn from!)
Remi, the fat bastard

[weid14 0]

So you are suggesting that someone who has gone low, stay under the formation and dump with the camera guy? That's a sure way to NOT get invited back for another attempt. Low on a big/small/anyway, try to recover, at break off track like your life depends on it, cause it does. What if the camera person has a mal, you've dumped right below them, now what?

[wildblue 7]

ya, that's it, I was "clearing my airspace"
But seriously - be aware of what's around you!! If you know you went low, track a little longer, pull a little lower. If you know someone's low in your group, pull a a little higher. Low man give a good wave-off, do a barrel roll if that makes you feel good, or just look over your shoulder.
If you have to, go work on your tracking. Take someone out with you that knows how to track well (remember to track 90 degrees from jumprun) and practice your "break-off tracks" - track for a few seconds, stop, do a 180 and do it again. Remember, 99% of the time, flatter is better. Ever watch a big-way from the ground? There's usually one or two guys WAY far away from everyone else at pull time? They didn't leave early, they didn't pull low - they can flat track. Catch them when they get to the ground and ask advice.

[RemiAndKaren 0]

Weid14, I sure hope your reply was to me....

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So you are suggesting that someone who has gone low, stay under the formation and dump with the camera guy?

I said:

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If you happen to go low on a formation: NEVER QUIT! go to the side of it, looking sideways, and fight to get back up for the entire dive, and only track off when the rest of the group does.

Should I repeat: only TRACK OFF when the rest does.... as in tracking.... as in getting far far away.... fast....
If you were replying to someone else, sorry...
Remi (who also mis-reads some posts)

[wildblue 7]

Remi -
I think he was replying to Clay who said:

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As far as being under a large formation. I would try to get right in the middle of it. The camera flyer should pull when every one else tracks. ( hope he doesnt have a mal!!) I cant imagine that being any lower than 3500 unless it's a highly experienced team screwing around.

eek!
And no, cameramen don't always take the middle and dump right at break-off. NOT a good way to make friends.

[weid14 0]

yes, I was repling to ClayFowler... easier to see in the threaded view.

[RemiAndKaren 0]

Sorry about that then.. got a little hot under the collar!!! I hate that treaded view... but guess It can be usefull..
So let me get on to the Clay-bashing then!!!! No other comments the what I, Weid and Wild had....

[ClayFowler 0]

OK...here's where we get situational dependent. If you are under a large formation(define large) and it's pull time (dont have the alt left to track away from all those people). Sit still....you'll have clear airspace before you know it. If you have altitude......track the hell away!

[weid14 0]

it's not situational dependant, it's altitude awareness. If the formation tracks at their prescribed break off altitude, you do to. If the foramtion hasn't tracked away at pull time, well I guess it will be raining free bags ala Nationals last year (fun jump big way, I think 4 AAD fires on the load - at least it was a good spot all the free bags landed in the grass).
The point is, you hang on the outside and try your hardest to get back "up" to the formation, at break off, pick your heading and track away. I've seen some pissed off camera people when jumpers elect to do something not in the plan (no track, short track). In fact, there was a guy goofing around, caused a burble for the camera guy at deployment and his X-braced canopy spun up like a barber pole because of it - he chopped. Not a very good scenerio.

[ClayFowler 0]

OK...OK....OK....I was assuming he meant that he WAS NOT originally part of the big way and somehow ended up under them. Moral of the story....this would be bad juju. Dont get yourself into this situation.