Wind Tunnels "saving the sport"?

[peek 21]

Might be a repost, and it is a month old, but...

http://biz.yahoo.com/wallstreet/071123/sb119577059712701370_id.html?.v=1

The accurate reporting of the decline in skydiving is interesting though.

[happythoughts 0]

In a way, they could be right.

If you look at the polar opposite, golf has a lot of draws.

- You can invite anyone, regardless of physical shape, out to play golf. Nine out of ten will join you.

You can now do that with the wind tunnel. You get a larger participation.

- There is money to be made in golf. Since golf has such a large participation, that equals large product sales. Anyone can walk in and spend $300 on golf clubs. It is business math - price times quantity.

- Prize money. With large participation and gear sales, comes tv ads for products. Tv ad dollars provide the prizes for events.

Anyone can go buy a snow board. Even among skydivers, very few people will buy skysurfing equipment.

[beowulf 1]

Once those kids get old enough to skydive it will be interesting to see what kind of impact they have on skydiving.

[zipplewrath 1]

Quote

If you look at the polar opposite, golf has a lot of draws.

Golf is seeing a decline as well. There is an implication in the larger society that sports in general aren't as big a draw for the up coming generations. I suspect Mr. Burke and others would do well to study these larger trends before concluding that the answers lie in efforts like a national sky patrol. Tennis, baseball, bowling, have all gone through periods of serious decline. My personal suspicion would be that there is a common theme here that is vastly larger than skydiving.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Once those kids get old enough to skydive it will be interesting to see what kind of impact they have on skydiving.

I can tell you one thing, I am already jealous.

After I had been jumping for a while, I was doing some 4-way. Our coach took us to the tunnel and we bounced off the walls like lottery balls.
It was quite an eye opener to realize how sloppy that we were.

I have seen people who used the tunnel to make major leaps in skill. What I learned in 200 jumps, they learned in 4 months in the tunnel.

The skill level of these tunnel kids, with good coaching, will be unbelievable.

[kirkverner 0]

As we collect information time will tell if tunneling and skydiving marry each other and stay married. I think ultimately they will compliment each other well. We give FTF's a handout that includes a description and plug of USPA.
Check out these vids and judge for yourself.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wVnMeLYjcVA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eI0pN9-ETBk

ParacleteXP

[piisfish 140]

Rberta sent me the links to these videos and dammit I am jealous too

congrats for the tunnel, the kids and the crew.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Krip 2]

Quote

Once those kids get old enough to skydive it will be interesting to see what kind of impact they have on skydiving.

Good point. I wonder if the kids start off young enough by the time the kids get old enough to jump how much money will mom and dad will have shelled out for tunnel time.

I'd rather put the $$$ away for the kids college education or to bankroll their pro gambling career

R.I.P.

One Jump Wonder

[beowulf 1]

Quote

Quote

Once those kids get old enough to skydive it will be interesting to see what kind of impact they have on skydiving.

Good point. I wonder if the kids start off young enough by the time the kids get old enough to jump how much money will mom and dad will have shelled out for tunnel time.

I'd rather put the $$$ away for the kids college education or to bankroll their pro gambling career

R.I.P.

The parents that can afford to send their kids to the tunnel regularly most likely have plenty of money to send them to college.

[Krip 2]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Once those kids get old enough to skydive it will be interesting to see what kind of impact they have on skydiving.

Good point. I wonder if the kids start off young enough by the time the kids get old enough to jump how much money will mom and dad will have shelled out for tunnel time.

I'd rather put the $$$ away for the kids college education or to bankroll their pro gambling career

R.I.P.

The parents that can afford to send their kids to the tunnel regularly most likely have plenty of money to send them to college.

Good point

The sport will continue to evolve and I can see a time when parachutes, packing and airplanes, airports were just used back in the day.

The tunels can solve a lot of problems that skydiving is facing today. I wonder what tittle will be used to decribe The sport of turning points & FS in tunnels.

Nothing wrong with it, time marchs on.

One Jump Wonder

[bch7773 0]

Quote

I wonder what tittle will be used to decribe The sport of turning points & FS in tunnels.

as long as they stop calling it "indoor skydiving"

talk about trying to make a nondangerous activity sound crazy and exciting.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[beowulf 1]

I don't think the tunnel will replace skydiving. I think it will get kids interested in skydiving at an earlier age. The tunnel is a good example of what freefall is all about. It gives them a way to relate to freeflying or RW. But it can't teach them about swooping or CReW. Tunnel flying can't cover everything possible in the sky. Like tracking or autmonauti or diving down to a large formation.

[beowulf 1]

Quote

Quote

I wonder what tittle will be used to decribe The sport of turning points & FS in tunnels.

as long as they stop calling it "indoor skydiving"

talk about trying to make a nondangerous activity sound crazy and exciting.

Tunnel flying isn't with out it's own dangers. Freeflying in the tunnel can be very dangerous.

[tunnelmom 0]

Every sport has it dangers... I have seen kids get knocked unconscious or have serious injuries in football, soccer, baseball etc. The kids just love the sport, the nice thing about flying in the tunnel is that it gives them the opportunity to learn many aspects of the freefalling portion of the sport (minus exit skills canopy control etc). It translates into skills they will definitely use should they decide to become skydivers in the future. Tunnel flying and skydiving definitely compliment each other. There is a whole group of kids in Colorado involved in the tunnel and I would not be surprised if many of them become skydivers when they are old enough. Some are very close to 18 now and are already talking about how they can't wait to jump.

[beowulf 1]

Yeah I agree with you. I wish would have had the opportunity to fly in a windtunnel when I was 8 or 9 years old. I think the windtunnel is a great primer for skydiving.

[MakeItHappen 15]

Quote

Might be a repost, and it is a month old, but...

http://biz.yahoo.com/wallstreet/071123/sb119577059712701370_id.html?.v=1

The accurate reporting of the decline in skydiving is interesting though.

Yeah it was posted when it appeared in the WSJ.

Will exclusive tunnel training create "100 minute wonders"?

The 'fear factor' in the general population about 'jumping out of a perfectly good airplane' will probably not change no matter how many hours of tunnel time you get as a kid.

Add to that the sudden 'out of your element' factor in comparison to skydiving and all the extra burdens real skydives have, tunnels will probably not increase the numbers of skydivers. Extra marketing efforts at most tunnels will add to the skydiver rosters.

The vast majority of skydiving fatalities/injuries are related to stuff other than FF skills. Tunnel time does not prepare someone for
- gear checks
- protecting handles
- EPs
- altitude awareness
- CC
- packing
- etc.

You take a kid with lots of tunnel time - where he is an expert flyer -and then put him into an environment where he could kill himself if he doesn't have altitude awareness or gear awareness or CC awareness. Add in some hot sweaty packing lessons, PLFs, EP training etc. That may not encourage kids to start jumping. It may encourage them to do more tunnel time.

About the only thing that I could 'for sure' predict about tunnel rats becoming jumpers is that jumpers will be more of the 'Gas-n-Go' mind-set and that packing will eventually be removed from the A-license requirement.

Time will tell.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[cocheese 0]

My first experience in skydiving was the Flyaway in Vegas when i was 18. It made me want to skydive. Two years later i did a static line jump. I did good. My friends said it was because i had (3 minutes) tunnel time.

[Krip 2]

Quote

Quote

I wonder what tittle will be used to decribe The sport of turning points & FS in tunnels.

as long as they stop calling it "indoor skydiving"

talk about trying to make a nondangerous activity sound crazy and exciting.

Crazy and exciting sells

Who would pay $$$ for aerodynamic square dancing? (ASD)

Or Brag at the PTA meeting about their kids new snob hobby Aerodynamic Square Dancing

[Baksteen 84]

I may be about to kick in an open door, but I feel it's necessary to say this.

Quote

Tunnel time does not prepare someone for
- gear checks
- protecting handles
- EPs
- altitude awareness
- CC
- packing
- etc.

You are right, it doesn't. Another "unexpected" factor is ground rush.
But none of the non-tunnel students are prepared for any of those things either. But the feeling of freefall-speed wind on your face, stable body position, freefall skills - that's the advantage of having done tunnel time.

It's like learning to ski on one of those conveyor belt kinda thingies. You learn the basic techniques pretty well, but that don't mean you can just go out and ski from the black pistes in one go!
You first have to overcome your fear of actually moving, and have to learn to deal with irregularities and ince in skiing pistes. Not to mention overcome your fear of the "ravines". So you take snow-skiing classes.

IMO the only thing you have to watch out for is that such a student doesn't have a dangerous "know it all"attitude - but I'd guess those students would be a minority.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[hukturn 0]

Yeah...they will most likely be shit hot freefallers without any idea how to get to the ground safely. Their freefall skills will be more in line with someone with thousands of jumps. Then, they will feel pressured to jump higher performance canopies performing more radical maneuvers. But, their canopy skills will be short. Impact on the sport...more likely question would be what will be their impact with the ground.

[NeedToJump 0]

Quote

Then, they will feel pressured to jump higher performance canopies performing more radical maneuvers.

Why is this such a common assumption? I've known lots of people who started out as tunnel instructors / tunnel rats before ever making a jump and none of them have rushed through their canopy progression. I also know a ton of people with zero tunnel time who have rushed through their canopy progression. Some are still around, some are not.

I completely agree with Baksteen:

Quote

IMO the only thing you have to watch out for is that such a student doesn't have a dangerous "know it all"attitude - but I'd guess those students would be a minority.

This attitude has nothing to do with how much tunnel time a person has.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[beowulf 1]

Quote

Yeah...they will most likely be shit hot freefallers without any idea how to get to the ground safely. Their freefall skills will be more in line with someone with thousands of jumps. Then, they will feel pressured to jump higher performance canopies performing more radical maneuvers. But, their canopy skills will be short. Impact on the sport...more likely question would be what will be their impact with the ground.

I think their canopy progression will depend more on the persons personality then it will on their skills in the air.

[Krip 2]

Tunnels may do more than save the sport it might change it in ways some of us can't imagine.

Parachute

Dude thats so retro. Don't need no parachute to turn pts in a tunnel.

2020 - 2030 who knows

[Baksteen 84]

or.. they might actually downsize slower.
With the unknown element of canopy flying, but their already smoking-hot freefall/freefly skills, they won't feel the need to fly a smaller canopy, cuz they know thatt the larger one will get them down safely, while still allowing them to exersise their freefall abilities.
This assumption is just as valid as yours is, and just as based on speculation.

The only thing we can say for now is that time will tell.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[tunnelmom 0]

I am not sure why you would judge these kids like that? Have you met them? None of us knows what they will actually be like when they turn 18. What I can tell you is that they are extremely different... My daughter's style is completely opposite of my son's. It is really hard to generalize something like this, especially without relaly getting to know these kids. Every tunnel flyer and skydiver has a different personality which may or may not show up in their overall skillset. I think that teaching these kids all of the dangers of the sport and making sure that they understand those dangers will go a long way in keeping them safe. They sure do have excellent role models (both skydivers and tunnel flyers) at SVCO, and that will go a long way in making me feel comfortable with what will happen if/when they actually jump from an airplane!