zachvantonder 0 #1 July 14, 2009 The questions are: -is realistically possible to do around 10 to 20 hours of tunnel time in 4 to 5 weeks? -where and who? Some backround. South Africa has no tunnel. So I would have to travel. The travel costs are high for us. I would like to learn as much as possible in the 4 to 5 weeks. I would really appreciate some advice. I have done about 100 freefly jumps. I can now sit-fly ok. Still lots to learn. Was hoping to fasttrack the process to become a better freeflyer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #2 July 14, 2009 get ahold of Chris Irwin http://www.tunneltime.com or call Eloy and talk to Sugar Ray (Ray Kubiak) best instructors your money can buy. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d_squared431 0 #3 July 14, 2009 Quoteget ahold of Chris Irwin http://www.tunneltime.com or call Eloy and talk to Sugar Ray (Ray Kubiak) best instructors your money can buy.TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1 I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #4 July 14, 2009 10 to 20 in 4 weeks - absolutely, more please where and who - every skyventure I've visited has coaches on staff and those that can be brought in for your experience level on up ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zachvantonder 0 #5 July 14, 2009 thanx. have just sent chris a e-mail. do you think it is possible physically to do between 10 and 20 hours in 4 to 5 weeks? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zachvantonder 0 #6 July 14, 2009 does that include freezone do you think? just asking because they seem to be the most economic for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RPC1117 0 #7 July 14, 2009 Quotethanx. have just sent chris a e-mail. do you think it is possible physically to do between 10 and 20 hours in 4 to 5 weeks? Yes, it is physically possible...in fact not that hard. 10 - 20 hours spread out of 4-5 weeks is only 2 - 5 hours per week. That is not too hard at all. Start slow and only do an hour or so a day...take a few days off and then do more. By the time you get to the 2nd week you shouldn't have much problem doing as much as you want. A word of advice - let your bank know that you will be shelling out $10-20k at the overseas tunnel before you go. The last thing you want is for them to block your account due to the large $ being spent at an overseas location and thinking it is fraud. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #8 July 14, 2009 QuoteThe questions are: -is realistically possible to do around 10 to 20 hours of tunnel time in 4 to 5 weeks? -where and who?Yes, realistic -- if you show a big wad of green. If you are willing to do 10 to 20 hours, you can afford to fly to the world's best tunnels that are currently offering the best deals. You'll probably want a good one, such as a recirculator -- they are smoother. Then again, the size of the chamber also has a factor (Eloy's nonrecirculator is really BIG, for example, and it's by an excellent skydiving resort. Eat, sleep, skydive, tunnefly!) -- bigger chamber often leads to fewer bruises, especially when learning difficult tricks that involves flips. On the other hand, If you chase the cheaper deals (~$500/hour which is super-cheap, many tunnels often approach $1000/hour) at places like SVNH and Freezone, you'll save plenty to pay for a vacation for yourself and the world's best freeflyer tunnel instructor to the tunnel location of your choice ;-) Although don't forget proximity to dropzones, since you'll want to apply your new-found freefly skills in the sky too! Maybe even with the same instructor (why not -- if you can afford it!) Many can get used to it to the point where they can do 2 hours in one day (if you've got your "tunnel legs" then it consumes less energy than a 8-skydive-and-packjobs day), but it's brutal if you're not used to it. Realistically, limit it to 1 hour per day, unless you're very fit. Then some skydive break in between some of those hours. First time I flew in the tunnel, just doing 15 minutes made me sore, now flying for 1 hour makes me less sore than that first time. First, this makes a big difference in reducing the chances of becoming sore: In preparation in the couple to few weeks prior, work out at your gym or any exercise that hits all the muscles you normally use during skydiving -- Definitely do those stretching exercises, especially those that pertain to your back and arching too. When you fly, spread the tunnel time out as much as you can, especially at first. The tunnel makes you very sore after a hard day if you're not used to it. Second, start very easy at first, 15 minutes on first day, 30 minutes on next day, 1 hour the next. If you're very fit, you can probably go straight into 1 hour a day first time around, but you'll be extremely sore. Be careful, for many people, 2 hours in one day is a lot. I recommend, as you say, spreading it over 4 to 5 weeks, especially with rest days in between. Especially if you do schedule 1-hour days. And schedule PLENTY of jumps in the sky in between to allow you to 'apply' your skills. I think 30 hour and 1 hour tunnel days would be a sweet spot/compromise. (of course, broken into manageable rotations, in 15 minute batches, as they usually do -- to allow you to do video debriefs). 10 to 20 yours of tunnel time is going to probably make you a damn good freeflyer -- especially with skydiving breaks -- not many people can afford that much tunnel time in one month! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #9 July 15, 2009 >-is realistically possible to do around 10 to 20 hours of tunnel time in 4 to 5 weeks? Sure. I just did 4.5 hours in 3 days. 1 hour a day is a good limit when you are starting out; it wears out muscles you never knew you had. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surfbum5412 0 #10 July 15, 2009 Quoteget ahold of Chris Irwin http://www.tunneltime.com or call Eloy and talk to Sugar Ray (Ray Kubiak) best instructors your money can buy. Isn't Chris Irwin a belly flyer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris_K 0 #11 July 15, 2009 Quotethanx. have just sent chris a e-mail. do you think it is possible physically to do between 10 and 20 hours in 4 to 5 weeks? You would be sore but you can do an hour each day.Downsizing is not the way to prove your manhood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #12 July 15, 2009 I recommend contacting all the tunnels you are interested in visiting and ask for their bulk rates when buying that much time. Most of them will make deals beyond their advertised price especially if you will be flying during off peak hours which for some tunnels is the middle of the day while others late at night.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zachvantonder 0 #13 July 17, 2009 Thank you all for your advice! Will have to do some more checking. Just a question: How good is the FreeFly in Orland i.e. coaching ect. It seems the most economic place for me would be Skyventure Orlando and DeLand DZ. Also December temperatures. Does Orlando have the same freefly depth of coaching as Perris and Arizona? Please help with some more advice guys and girl. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zachvantonder 0 #14 July 17, 2009 thanks for you detailed reply. was so busy following your advice nearly forgot to say thanks. so thanks agian. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rlucus 0 #15 July 17, 2009 QuoteThank you all for your advice! Will have to do some more checking. Just a question: How good is the FreeFly in Orland i.e. coaching ect. It seems the most economic place for me would be Skyventure Orlando and DeLand DZ. Also December temperatures. Does Orlando have the same freefly depth of coaching as Perris and Arizona? Please help with some more advice guys and girl. *WARNING: Commenter has no idea what he is talking about.* I was under the impression that since it was one of the older tunnels, it wasn't capable of producing the wind speeds required for advanced head down... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #16 July 17, 2009 QuoteJust a question: How good is the FreeFly in Orland i.e. coaching ect. It seems the most economic place for me would be Skyventure Orlando and DeLand DZ. Also December temperatures. Does Orlando have the same freefly depth of coaching as Perris and Arizona?*** Warning, I don't know what I am talking about either *** I have heard of some really good coaches, and I think Orlando's been upgraded to allow headdown, but I can't remember. However, it's one of the older and smaller Skyventure tunnels in North America. For the amount of money you're going to spend, you might prefer a bigger and smoother chamber (possibly a recirculator), but the amenities of Orlando and inexpensive accomodations and great dropzones, might of course be the deal-maker here. Anyone from Orlando (who also has flown in other newer tunnels) care to comment about the recent state/condition of Skyventure Orlando? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bowen 0 #17 July 17, 2009 I work in Orlando and have flown in every tunnel (14 out of 15) in North America except Utah which I am going to next month. I have to say that I think recircs are turbulent. So I would have to disagree with the smooth comment. This is my take on it. Recurculating tunnels push air around sharp corners and then through a turning vane at the bottom. Then the air is pushed up into the area where you fly. this is what I think is wrong with this idea. the space from the turning vane to the wire net needs an air straightener. We have one and so does Arizona and Perris. I have flown in Orlando when we were replacing the air straightener and without it it was turbulent, with it really smooth. It would be really interesting to see what a recirc would be like with one. I think that even with the louvers open it will be smooth. I am not necessarily saying this to defend open airs, I just wanted to put out an observation. Each tunnel has good and bad. We are not the fastest but we are fast enough for Head down. 4 way HD, No, but for 2 way its fine. We are running much faster then we use to. -BowenRetired Tunnel Instructor, Sky/Tunnel Coach Former dealer for 2k Composites, Skysystems, Alti-2, Wings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rlucus 0 #18 July 17, 2009 I've only ever flown in Utah, and only a couple hours. I did get the chance to fly in it before and after they re-tuned it, if you were flying too close to the wall for a few seconds you could feel the air choke... that was fixed a long time ago though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stormywinters 1 #19 July 18, 2009 The air in Orlando is more choppy without the air staightener (only on windy days), the wind makes the airflow shake. I dont think the turning vanes(to a re-circ) r making the air choppy. I think the vanes r so low that the air has time to compress back together and enter the chamber smooth, alot like Orlando with no air straightener on a"no wind day". I have flown in a lot of tunnels, some feel choppy when the Luvers(air intake) r cranked way open, and it is only a little choppy in a specific corner(u can really feel it when carving) I know that every tunnel feels a little different, and every day can be different. When I started flying other tunnels, after working in Orlando for like 10 yrs, the air felt strange to me also. Now, I really like the re-circ, and mainly the SPEED!!! Most people could never tell the difference in quality, they mainly notice the MPH, the temp, and if is raining or not. RIGHT! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #20 July 19, 2009 Quote The air in Orlando is more choppy without the air staightener (only on windy days), the wind makes the airflow shake. I dont think the turning vanes(to a re-circ) r making the air choppy. I think the vanes r so low that the air has time to compress back together and enter the chamber smooth, alot like Orlando with no air straightener on a"no wind day".It's great the air straightener solved a lot of the Orlando problems. I flew in Orlando before the straightener...! That said, I definitely noticed Skyventure Montreal was a little smoother than Skyventure New Hampshire, due to the curved cylindrical design and only one entrance/exit. Even flying near the tunnel exit, the air was smooth; unlike SVNH, it was much harder to fall into the exit when doing hard 4-way formations that pushed you near the exit. I've recently flown in Skyventure Perris (2008), does it have the air straightener? Among the three tunnels I flew in the last 1.5 years, Montreal has the smoothest wind tunnel I have EVER flown in - when compared to Perris/NH. All are very smooth, though. But for turbulence next to the tunnel exit - Montreal wins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RafaelYP 0 #21 July 20, 2009 You are talking about spending between $8000 to $24000 (cheapest 10 hours, more expensive 20 hours) in tunnel. 4 weeks: $15 (in the dropzone) to $40 (hotel) per day, $450 to $1200. Food, $600. Car rental $150 per week. Plus jumps. Choose the best tunnel for you, no the cheaper travel from Soudafrica.Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites soulbabel 0 #22 July 21, 2009 I just came back from a 10 day trip in Colorado, and did roughly 7 hours in the Skyventure tunnel. It's very possible to do what you want to do. Some helpful information: 1. On the days I was there, I did an hour per day, which my coach broke up into short flight times throughout the day. This prevents you from being burned out too fast, and maximizes learning potential. It's not too bad to do an hour of sitflying, if spread out through the day. 2. WEAR UNDER-ARMOR!! Although my muscles weren't too fatigued, the jumpsuit will still rub your skin raw if you do that much time in the tunnel in a day. I got the long sleeve heat gear for sitflying, and all-weather pants for head down. My leg and arm sores are still healing from not doing that initially. 3. If you go to the Colorado tunnel, stay at the Extended StayAmerica. Not very luxurious, but you pay about $60/night, and you are a 3 minute walk from the windtunnel. Also, it's a very upperclass area, with plenty of places to eat nearby, as well as a movie theater. The closest public train station (lightrail) was a 15 minute walk, which kinda sucked, but provided cheap transportation to Denver from Lone Tree since I didn't have a car rental once I started tunnel training. 4. Keep hydrated and bring lotion and chapstick to prevent wind burn. Not essential, but helpful. 5. Invest in coached time and some play time. The coach time is good for learning technique and fixing bad habits, but I think play time is essential to really feeling the air and learning to react without thinking too much. My sitfly really improved because of it. 6. Go to a smaller tunnel. They are very cost efficient if you are just trying to improve your individual flight skills. And once you are good enough, an instructor or two won't mind jumping in to help you with docking practice. 7. Throw in a day of rest every now and then. I did a bunch of consecutive training days, but a rest day to see the sights or to go jumping was helpful when it felt like I reached a plateau in my headdown training. 8. Bring a laptop or portable dvd player. You will get all your sessions burned to a DVD, which is good to watch as you train to see what areas you want to work on the next day. 9. Contact the tunnel ahead of time and let them know you want to do that much time. They will work with you to give you a reasonable price. The Skyventure tunnels are individually owned, so each tunnel does things differently, and may sweeten the deal to get you to come to their tunnel instead of the others. Although I've only been to ParacleteXP and Skyventure Colorado, I highly recommend the Colorado tunnel. All the staff are very friendly, just say "Hi", and introduce yourself. The instructors were excellent, and I was coached by three different ones, which I find more helpful than sticking with just one, since their various perspectives helped me build a more solid picture of my flying abilities. Their customer service was top notch, and they were willing to work with my time scheduling to make sure I'd get the most benefit out of their tunnel. Colorado has beautiful summer weather, and there's lots to see and do. White water rafting is an excellent way to have fun and see the scenery at the same time. And the ladies, whew... there are hotties everywhere out there. If you decide to go with Skyventure Colorado, contact the tunnel and ask for Brad Cole, or Scotty L. and tell them Dexter sent you. They'll definitely take care of you, and I think their prices were actually the lowest for tunnel training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #23 July 21, 2009 QuoteColorado tunnel, stay at the Extended StayAmerica If you call the Marriot Residence/Courtyard - they'll normally give a good deal - it's not in walking distance, but only about 10 minute drive bonus - they have a hot tub, much better rooms, pool, free breakfast - but it's at least another $20/day more than the ExtStay. I think it's really worth it - my only real issue with teh ExtStay was no hot tub and the bed sheets - about the softness of brown paper hand towels. The Residence is a suite - separate bedroom from the front area. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #24 July 24, 2009 QuoteThe questions are: -is realistically possible to do around 10 to 20 hours of tunnel time in 4 to 5 weeks? -where and who? Some backround. South Africa has no tunnel. So I would have to travel. The travel costs are high for us. I would like to learn as much as possible in the 4 to 5 weeks. I would really appreciate some advice. I have done about 100 freefly jumps. I can now sit-fly ok. Still lots to learn. Was hoping to fasttrack the process to become a better freeflyer. I am assuming you are doing this with a group of people and not entirely by yourself? If thats the case, 4 weeks is more than enough time. I've done 20 hrs in a week with 3 others no problem, it all depends on how hard you want to go at it. If you spread 20 hrs out over 4 weeks, plan on having something else to do for all the hours you aren't in the tunnel. If traveling and sightseeing is on your list of things to do, 4 weeks might be a good choice. However, if this is strictly a skydiving/tunnel vacation, you could cut that time in half to 2 weeks and do a bit of both and not smoke yourself. I'll second what's been said already....Sugar Ray is the man. Working with him on your FFing would be time well spent."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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soulbabel 0 #22 July 21, 2009 I just came back from a 10 day trip in Colorado, and did roughly 7 hours in the Skyventure tunnel. It's very possible to do what you want to do. Some helpful information: 1. On the days I was there, I did an hour per day, which my coach broke up into short flight times throughout the day. This prevents you from being burned out too fast, and maximizes learning potential. It's not too bad to do an hour of sitflying, if spread out through the day. 2. WEAR UNDER-ARMOR!! Although my muscles weren't too fatigued, the jumpsuit will still rub your skin raw if you do that much time in the tunnel in a day. I got the long sleeve heat gear for sitflying, and all-weather pants for head down. My leg and arm sores are still healing from not doing that initially. 3. If you go to the Colorado tunnel, stay at the Extended StayAmerica. Not very luxurious, but you pay about $60/night, and you are a 3 minute walk from the windtunnel. Also, it's a very upperclass area, with plenty of places to eat nearby, as well as a movie theater. The closest public train station (lightrail) was a 15 minute walk, which kinda sucked, but provided cheap transportation to Denver from Lone Tree since I didn't have a car rental once I started tunnel training. 4. Keep hydrated and bring lotion and chapstick to prevent wind burn. Not essential, but helpful. 5. Invest in coached time and some play time. The coach time is good for learning technique and fixing bad habits, but I think play time is essential to really feeling the air and learning to react without thinking too much. My sitfly really improved because of it. 6. Go to a smaller tunnel. They are very cost efficient if you are just trying to improve your individual flight skills. And once you are good enough, an instructor or two won't mind jumping in to help you with docking practice. 7. Throw in a day of rest every now and then. I did a bunch of consecutive training days, but a rest day to see the sights or to go jumping was helpful when it felt like I reached a plateau in my headdown training. 8. Bring a laptop or portable dvd player. You will get all your sessions burned to a DVD, which is good to watch as you train to see what areas you want to work on the next day. 9. Contact the tunnel ahead of time and let them know you want to do that much time. They will work with you to give you a reasonable price. The Skyventure tunnels are individually owned, so each tunnel does things differently, and may sweeten the deal to get you to come to their tunnel instead of the others. Although I've only been to ParacleteXP and Skyventure Colorado, I highly recommend the Colorado tunnel. All the staff are very friendly, just say "Hi", and introduce yourself. The instructors were excellent, and I was coached by three different ones, which I find more helpful than sticking with just one, since their various perspectives helped me build a more solid picture of my flying abilities. Their customer service was top notch, and they were willing to work with my time scheduling to make sure I'd get the most benefit out of their tunnel. Colorado has beautiful summer weather, and there's lots to see and do. White water rafting is an excellent way to have fun and see the scenery at the same time. And the ladies, whew... there are hotties everywhere out there. If you decide to go with Skyventure Colorado, contact the tunnel and ask for Brad Cole, or Scotty L. and tell them Dexter sent you. They'll definitely take care of you, and I think their prices were actually the lowest for tunnel training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #23 July 21, 2009 QuoteColorado tunnel, stay at the Extended StayAmerica If you call the Marriot Residence/Courtyard - they'll normally give a good deal - it's not in walking distance, but only about 10 minute drive bonus - they have a hot tub, much better rooms, pool, free breakfast - but it's at least another $20/day more than the ExtStay. I think it's really worth it - my only real issue with teh ExtStay was no hot tub and the bed sheets - about the softness of brown paper hand towels. The Residence is a suite - separate bedroom from the front area. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #24 July 24, 2009 QuoteThe questions are: -is realistically possible to do around 10 to 20 hours of tunnel time in 4 to 5 weeks? -where and who? Some backround. South Africa has no tunnel. So I would have to travel. The travel costs are high for us. I would like to learn as much as possible in the 4 to 5 weeks. I would really appreciate some advice. I have done about 100 freefly jumps. I can now sit-fly ok. Still lots to learn. Was hoping to fasttrack the process to become a better freeflyer. I am assuming you are doing this with a group of people and not entirely by yourself? If thats the case, 4 weeks is more than enough time. I've done 20 hrs in a week with 3 others no problem, it all depends on how hard you want to go at it. If you spread 20 hrs out over 4 weeks, plan on having something else to do for all the hours you aren't in the tunnel. If traveling and sightseeing is on your list of things to do, 4 weeks might be a good choice. However, if this is strictly a skydiving/tunnel vacation, you could cut that time in half to 2 weeks and do a bit of both and not smoke yourself. I'll second what's been said already....Sugar Ray is the man. Working with him on your FFing would be time well spent."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
