Unusual reserve drill

[Geoff 0]

Well.... unusual to me, anyway.
here's a quote from the 'talk back' forum

Quote

Here in Oz, we start on our AFF's with old pigmys, SOS ( single operating system ), when you finish AFF's you go through a converstion to BOC. Reserve deployment goes like :
DISCARD
LOOK
LOCATE
PEEL
PUNCH
CHECK RIGHT THREE RING
CHECK LEFT THREE RING
PUNCH
ARCH
CLEAR
I forgot to discard, so when my main cut away, my hand was still in the toggle from the main for the reserve to go through the lines

er.... what? The drill I learned was look-locate-peel-punch-pull-arch (one hand on each handle). I know about the 'both hands on each handle' version, but I've never heard of the drill quoted above. What's being discarded? The main R/C? Why will holding on to it cause a mal? What's all the check 3 ring stuff about?
Any clues?
Thanks
Geoff

[MarkM 0]

Eh.
Look
Reach
Pull
Look
Reach
Pull
Was what I was taught and sure is a hell of a lot easier to remember.
Discard? Locate?
How about "PULL THE GODAMN HANDLE!!!".
Are we really gonna have students dying because they followed the "PULL THE GODAMN HANDLE!!!" emergency procedure when they had a mal?

[GeekStreak 0]

I was taught a similar method to Mark's...

Quote

Look
Reach
Pull
Look
Reach
Pull

Same steps, different order:
Look red
Reach red
Look silver
Pull red
Reach silver
Pull silver
TTFN,
Geek

[PalmettoTiger 1]

I think the one hand on each vs. both hands on one is more a question of what gear you jump. If you've got a zippy elliptical and mini 3-rings, then you're more likely to be under a fast spinning mal, with less mechanical advantage on the breakaway. So it would make more sense to get the cutaway handle with both hands, then pull it while you keep your eyes on the reserve handle.
If you're under a docile canopy and/or have large 3-rings, you're not as likely to have a hard pull, so the look reach look reach pull pull procedure isn't likely to get you in trouble.
Blues, squares,
PTiger

[Craig 0]

Quote

Same steps, different order:
Look red
Reach red
Look silver
Pull red
Reach silver
Pull silver

This is what I say as I drill procedures because it is how we were trained in ground school and didn't want to change procedures....two hands on each handle method.
Craig

[wildblue 7]

I like the little cadence they drilled into my head:
look right, grab right
look left, grab left
hard arch
punch right, punch left

[mattb 0]

From experience a couple of weeks ago under a fairly docile canopy (Safire @ 1.3:1 loading)
Reach Right,
Reach Left,
Pull Right,
Pull Left
If you can look first - good, but if you are spinning and the handles are up higher than usual it is tough to see them.
-mob

[slotperfect 7]

U.S. Military Free Fall procedures:
Look, Grab
Look, Grab
Arch
Pull, Discard
Pull, Discard
Check reserve canopy
I interpret the procedure quoted in the original post as referring to intitially discarding the main ripcord and/or main toggles if you already have them in your hand(s).
Suspended harness training isn't just for students anymore!
Respectfully,
SP

[DivaSkyChick 0]

I much prefer the short sweet "grab right, grab left, pull right, pull left" to the "look red, hands on red, look silver, pull red, pull silver".... but I wonder if a 112 lb girl, under a ZP 155, is going to have a hard time pulling those handles with one hand? And then my boyfriend keeps reminding me that I need to peel before pulling... not included in my AFF drill... I dread my first cutaway, I swear.
To top it off, in practice recently, hanging in the harness, I pulled red and went for silver but got my thumb stuck in the large ring which was now hanging down to where my silver handle *used* to be... I did this three times. Scared the **** out of me. Has everyone had an opportunity to practice pullling - in a harness with someone tugging on you like you're in a spin? It wasn't how I thought it would be at all. Or maybe it's just me...

[Krishan 0]

Look, Grab
Look, Grab
Peel, Pull
Risers Clear
Pull and hope for the best.

[PalmettoTiger 1]

Diva, I was under the impression that most 3-ring systems don't allow the largest ring to flop down anymore. Disconnect your main and try it on your rig. If it does, talk to your rigger and see if that can be prevented. All the more reason to have an RSL or AAD, too.
And I'll say it again, because I feel like being obnoxious: One handed cutaway vs. two handed cutaway should not be an issue of speed or indoctrination. It should be an issue of "Is my gear likely to give me a hard pull?" No? One hand on each before you do anything! Yes? Get both hands on that cutaway pillow and haul on it!!
What the military uses, what you were first taught, what your boyfriend's uncle's distant relation uses, what Andre-Jacques Garnerin used DOESN'T MATTER. Your emergency procedures should reflect what gear you are using. The number of syllables you shout as you deal with a high-speed mal doesn't matter either. Just pull the freakin' handles RIGHT side LEFT side BAM you're done (one way or another).
Blues, squares,
PTiger

[Kris 0]

LOOK
GRAB (both)
ARCH
PUNCH RIGHT
PUNCH LEFT
Seemed to work pretty well for me last December...
Kris

[Freeflylizard 0]

Well, here in England, we are simply taught:
LOOK
LOCATE
PEEL
PUNCH
PULL
ARCH.
I like this drill, but then it's the one I was taught and it is the one that is instinctive to me now. My little advise is don't over-complicate it, and don't change the drill you learned originally unless you're really really confident about it. Don't forget that your mind works quite differently in an emergency situation, so you don't want to confuse it with complicated reserve drills.
Tom.

[Donna 0]

I had the video 'Breakaway' before I started AFF. They show both the one hand on each and the two hand on each method and I asked my DZ which one they taught so I knew which one to practice. They teach the two hand on each handle method so I practiced the "Look red, reach red, look silver, pull red, reach silver, pull silver,". Months later when I got to AFF clas they used left and right instead but I've always had trouble with knowing left and right quickly... kind of dyslexic there or something so I asked if I could just go with red and silver instead. This is so drilled into my head that I don't feel comfortable changing it now. On Safety Day we practiced in the harness and simulated hard cutaways. One very experienced skydiver who was adamant about one hand on each method ended up pulling in the wrong order when he did the hard pull drill. I'm not saying not to use that method... just something to be aware of. My husband, in fact, has switched over to the one hand on each method. He is much stronger than I am and isn't worried about a hard pull. I think it doesn't matter which method you use as long as you have a set plan for emergencies and practice your procedures all the time and are aware of any drawbacks. It is a good thing to check your handles after deployment so you can check where they are. One new thing I've added is to be really pushing my hips out the whole time. At our Safety Day this was really stressed by one of our long term jumpers who has had quite a few cutaways in his 26 years of jumping.
We were also taught to throw our handles away but after recently getting my own gear and seeing how much those handles cost I'm hoping I might hang onto them anyway now! Blue 1111,
D

[Michele 1]

Red (look),
red (both hands)
silver (look)
red (pull)
silver (both hands)
silver (pull).
Two hands each pull. No problem. In the harness room, in my head, no problem.
Now I put on my gear, cinch the straps tight; guess what? I can't reach the handles with both hands. I am fairly large breasted and I can't reach across everything with my shoulders in a real rig when everything is strapped.
So, when the time comes, it will be with one hand. Because of that, I have started working out again, so I'll be ready and strong enough to do it without worries (or without additional worries).
Any hints from experienced divers?
Bleau cieux
Michele

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

So, when the time comes, it will be with one hand. Because of that, I have started working out again, so I'll be ready and strong enough to do it without worries (or without additional worries).

Well, so far, the following has worked for me twice..
Look(both)
Grab(both)
Arch
Pull right
Pull Left
One of those times, I got to Arch and found my reserve inflating, with both handles at full arms extention, and my main canopy way above me.. I guess when you practice it every jump, it becomes second nature.. The second time, after dumping at 5k(trying a Stilleto for the first time), spinning malfunction, got to the Pull right part and found that my right arm was already at full extention, and I was already becoming stable.. Waited a couple more seconds, and pulled the reserve at 3.5k.. It all happened so fast, and I was pretty much on autopilot..
Mike

[Iflyme 0]

Look and Locate, Punch Right, Punch Left...

[Alvitz 0]

Wanna see a really UNUSUAL emergency procedure?
Go to:
http://www.worstcasescenarios.com/adventure.htm
and read "How to Survive if Your Parachute Fails to Open".
The really scaring thing is that that is supposed to have been written by an "expert"...........
About the real thread disscussed, I've been tought "one hand on each, and pull the soft one first". I've never had any problem with this method, but I don't know if I'd be so quick with a "two soft handles sys". I usually practice my handles procedure every time I jump alone. I finish my exercise at 4,000 and reach the handles as many times as I can before 3,000. Without loosing stability. I suggest to do it, sometimes. Indipendently from the procedure choosen and that work best (and quicker) for any of you. It is A LOT different to do it in the air than on the ground.
Just my opinion.
Blue Regards
A.

[BPO 0]

> and read "How to Survive if Your Parachute Fails to Open".
--
this is a joke.... right?

[Donna 0]

Quote

Now I put on my gear, cinch the straps tight; guess what? I can't reach the handles with both hands. I am fairly large breasted and I can't reach across everything with my shoulders in a real rig when everything is strapped.

When I got my own rig I found the same problem. I asked the container manufacturer about it and they said in a typical malfunction you will be most likely 'sitting up' in your container (like you are under canopy). He said to kneel on the ground with my rig on and have someone strong pull me up by my riser straps and see if I can reach the handles and when I did that I had no trouble getting both hands on each handle. I also never had trouble doing it in the hanging practice harness.
Working out is a good idea anyway though. It will help with flaring evenly and front and rear riser turns, too.
Skies and fluffies,
D

[Michele 1]

Thanks, Donna. I'll have to try that. I appreciate it!
bleau cieux -
Michele

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

About the real thread disscussed, I've been tought "one hand on each, and pull the soft one first". I've never had any problem with this method, but I don't know if I'd be so quick with a "two soft handles sys".

I definitely don't agree with the way you were taught.. "Pull the soft handle first" is not a good way to teach.. If you jump a rig with soft handles on BOTH sides......now you have a problem.. You either pull the wrong handle first, or you have to stop and think about it for a second(that you may not have to spare).. Personally, I believe that "pull right, pull left" is the best idea.. Some people go with "pull red, pull silver".. What happens when they jump a rig with two pillows, both neon yellow?
My handles are traditional colors - red cutaway pillow, silver reserve pillow...but I still use the "pull right, pull left".. "Pull the soft one first" could get me in serious trouble since they're both pillows..
Mike

[Alvitz 0]

".. "Pull the soft handle first" is not a good way to teach.."
I know, but that's how it happened....
This is the reason I keep practicing in freefall too, to make it very smooth and VERY automatic, independently from the feeling I get from the handles. ;-)
"....they said in a typical malfunction you will be most likely 'sitting up' in your container (like you are under canopy)....."
What about a bag-lock?
Blue Regards
A.

[Michele 1]

Well, folks, it works. Red, red, silver, red, silver, silver worked for me today (AFF level III spinning mal - story on theTalk board). Even managed to keep hold of the red handle, but lost the silver (didn't even know that I had it - it was still connected to my harness). My breasts didn't even enter my thoughts - the red was by my neck, and the silver was somewhere near my left waist/ribs. One hand on the silver, but two on the red.
Drill. All I can say is Drill. Drill. Then DRILL. And then, guess what, drill some more. Please drill.
Michele