whos mal?

[froggie 0]

hey all. I have a question. I was talkign to stacy and she told me that her friend has 900 skydives and never had a mal. And my AFF instructor has been jumping since 96 and has only had two mals. He said that they were both in the beginning, before he really had a lot of jumps under his belt. The thing is, both of these people pack their own chutes. In fact, Rick told me that hes considered Anal cause of his precise pack jobs. My question is, how many of you have had mals that you packed? mals that somebody else packed? im thinking that maybe packing your own rig everytime lowers your chances of a mal. just as long as you have a good technique. what do you guys think?
froggie

[Zennie 0]

Well, I haven't been in the sport long enough to say with authority, but I plan on packing my own because most (not all, but most) mals can be traced back to some kind of packing error.
Not that I don't trust my DZ's packers. They're all good, but I still kind of like doing those kinds of things on my own. To me, packing your 'chute is kind of part of the sport. Not packing your own (to me) is like playing golf to the green and then having somebody else putt for you.
It's not that difficult once you learn it. But it is a pain at first. I'm still wrestling with getting the thing bagged and the line stows nice & neat. But you only get better with practice.
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Blue Skies!
Zennie

[cyberskydive 0]

Well I have had only one reserve ride, I packed the chute, jump # 46 or so. It opened fine and I thought it was untill I tried to turn-LOL, then I realized that my pilot chute was around the nose and wrapped slightly in the line groups on the right, hence why so little reaction to a left toggle turn-LOL- the canopy began to slowly spin to the right and I was wayyyy off the dz, so BYE BYE. I'm dont think I would have done it any different if it happened now-LOL!
Anyway I also do alot of packing, students tandems whatever with a clean record (knock knock) -LOL
I definately prefer to pack my own, and I pack everyones just like I would my own, I think packing your own definately has lots of advantages, but on the other hand having someone else pack it for you has its advantages too.
I would say pack your own, but if not at least know how your packer packs packs.
Mals can be packed by anyone, but I would feel better knowing that I packed it I guess-LOL
D.Chisolm C-28534
webmaster@sunraydesigns.com
http://www.sunraydesigns.com

[grasshopper 0]

it seems like more mals happen on borrowed/rented gear. I have 3 reserve rides on other peoples gear, none on my own with about 400 jumps total. one I packed, one someone else packed, and one was a test jump.

[froggie 0]

thanks guys for the feedback. im still going thru the whole student status aspect and im trying to find the best ways to do things. Im getting more and more familiar with packing. I took a really extensive packing course from our main packer last week. spent monday afternoon watching/learning/helping three other people pack their chutes.. all very experienced jumpers.
But im really learning the most from the one who would be packng my chute if i choose to have somebody pack it. So im picking up his style of packing. Thaks for the advice. much appreciated.
froggie

[Cacophony 0]

I have never packed myself a malfunction but I have packed one for someone else. It was a hard pull. She did ok with it. Sorry. It was actually supposed to be for me to jump but it didn't work out that way. Ooops. I am not going to purposely give myself a malfunction but I wish one would hurry up and get here. I don't want to go too long without proving to myself that I can handle the situation when it comes. I longer that it takes, the less prepared I will be for it, even though I am always waiting. I guess I am better off without one though.
Safe landings,
Alex D-something

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

I am not going to purposely give myself a malfunction but I wish one would hurry up and get here. I don't want to go too long without proving to myself that I can handle the situation when it comes. I longer that it takes, the less prepared I will be for it, even though I am always waiting. I guess I am better off without one though.

Don't get in too much of a hurry.. I know of a lot of people that have gone hundreds of jumps without a mal.. One even went 1500 before he had a mal.. All handled it fine.. We had one today at Skydive Space Center than had his first mal with around 250 jumps.. Severe line twists, a brake came unstowed, and it started to spin.. He got rid of it pretty quickly.. He didn't know the brake came unstowed on opening(hence the spinning) until we later watched it on his video camera.. The spinning was just making the line twists worse, so he didn't really have much to work with.. I think he pulled around 2.5.. He packed it himself..
Mike

[Dutchboy 0]

We had a mal yesterday at Skydive Atlanta. It was one of our video guys, so it was all captured on video. This one was pretty wild. The canopy was fully open and flying backwards, then sideways, and then put him in a nasty spin before he chopped it. The canopy flew a long way after he chopped too. Looking at the video it appears that his packer passed the rig through one of the risers or something. You could see one of the line groups twisted around the other side. His packer felt really bad. I told him he should put that on the tandem video in place of the landing he missed.

[Iflyme 0]

Quote

One even went 1500 before he had a mal

Doesn't the Skydiver's Handbook make reference to a French skydiver who passed 5000 jumps without a mal...?

[SpeedRacer 1]

There was a profile in Parachutist about a woman named Linnie from Washington (the state) who had 2300 jumps and no cutaways.
Speed Racer
"Blue Skies, Red eyes, Sore thighs!"

[NewGuy 0]

What are the current stats for mals? I mean, what's the average numberof jumps before the first mal? Between mals? (Hey, I'm the new guy...)

[Swede 0]

We have a guy in Gothenburg´s DZ (Sweden) that has around 2500 jumps without a mal.

[Zennie 0]

In talking to people and reading the "average" seems to be about 1 cutaway for every 500 jumps. 'Course I've heard of cutawys by AFF students and no cutaways for people with thousands, so it varies.
I've got 25 and I recently had a nasty line twist that made me at least think "Get ready to chop" before I started kicking. I managed to kick it out though.
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Blue Skies!
Zennie

[SkySlut 0]

I was on the PD site and couldnt find what I was looking for, but doesnt PD have some sort of average number that says when a parachute will malfunction? I think that it was something like 1 in every 200 or 1 in every 500 jumps. I cant remember where I saw this statistic, but I am fairly certain that I saw it from a manufacturer. Anyone know?
"I'll jump anything!"

[Geoff 0]

2 points:
(1) I'm sure you can improve the odds - maybe from 500:1 to perhaps 1000:1 by careful inspection, maintenance and packing. It's not just luck.
(2) You can improve them again by not being too chop-happy i.e. assessing problems carefully before deciding to chop. I know a guy who has had 2 cutaways on Sabres due to a brake releasing on deployment and the canopy starting to spin-up. You really should be able to recover that with a Sabre.
Students are taught: if in doubt - cutaway, and that's OK up to a point, but remember the reserve is your last chance and reserve mals happen. If you can make the main landable before your hard deck, you should.
Geoff

[des 2]

had my first self packed mal at about jump#6700,the rapide was loose and gave way on a hard opening.had 13 other chops all packed by others.i still tend to think it's mostly luck,though.
des

[max 0]

Had my first and only mal so far on Jump #366. It was packed by one of our DZ packers. It wasnt his fault though, I personnaly think it was just dumb luck.
When its your turn for a mal ot will happen, regardless of who packs it.

[slotperfect 7]

I had my first mal at jump #1886:
I was doing a demo with a borrowed main, which had recently had a split-slider installed. The guy who did it over-tightened the french link and cracked the barrel nut. I didn't catch it because the links were covered with old tubing type slider bumpers. I had a hard opening. The nut failed, the link elongated, and the whole line group went up into the canopy. I landed safely in a landfill. I packed it myself, BTW.
My second mal came at jump #1952 on the same canopy, practicing for another demo. This time the opening was bone-cracking hard and I broke three nose lines side-by-side. I landed safely on the DZ. I packed that one too. My friend retired the canopy, and I haven't had a mal since, 495 jumps later.
I didn't mean to clutter up this string with my war stories; just thought others might be able to keep that from happening to them!
Respectfully,
SP

[Head 0]

Froggie,
I have had one malfunction that someone else packed (it was on student gear). I have almost 800 jumps. My husband has 1100 jumps and no malfunctions. He and I are the only ones that pack each others rigs and we only do each others when one of us is too tired or busy to do our own. My belief is that packing your own the same way consistently gives you the best chance of avoiding a packing-induced malfunction.
Head

[froggie 0]

I just wanted to thank everyone for their ideas/input and stories. Its a real benifit to hear that regular jumpers DO have malfunctions, and that regular people can handle a mal. It seems like a lot of people have mals early on, and the fact that they can handle them gives me a lot of reasurance that when its my time, im going to know what to do. If theres one thing I do everytime I go out to the DZ, its practice my procedures. And I have you guys here at dz.com to thank for that (besides my excellent coaches). Because of the numerous stories it was put into my head early on that knowing how to deal w/ a mal is one of the most important aspects of skydiving, no matter what level youre on. Thanks
kelly

[EDDIE 0]

I agree with Geoff in point (2)
I'am only new in the sport but I had this guy getting his AFF as the same time I was, he was a really nervous guy,(we actually nick named him nerves) so anyway nerves could only get his AFF on weekends so I only saw him 2 days, Day 1 (theory bad weather) Day2 (bad weather)I finished the AFF in the next days. I got back to DZ about 1 month 1/2 later and ran into nerves who was on his 11th AFF jump and had sufferd 3 mal's. Moral of the story- I spoke to my Instructor (was his instructor too) and they were deciding wether or not to let him jump again, his opinion was that nerves was'nt even waiting for his main too fully open (slow openings) or following any procedure at all he was just cutting away to quick. I was also told that he had a few (major) problems with wind direction on landings. I've have'nt seen or heard of nerves again, but if I do I will tell.

ADIOS FROM SPAIN

[Kirils 1]

I've had 3 chops in 125 jumps... The problems were not really due to packing error, more like poor body position
on pull and RSL induced problems, and container induced problems. Because of my experiences and problems others have had, I removed my RSL and stopped jumping my new Reflex container.

[Geoff 0]

I'd really like to hear about the 'RSL induced problems'- any chance you could post some details?
(no, I don't want to start a pro / anti RSL discussion!)
Thanks
Geoff

[Jessica 0]

And I'm really interested in why you stopped jumping your Reflex.

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

I've had 3 chops in 125 jumps... The problems were not really due to packing error, more like poor body position
on pull and RSL induced problems, and container induced problems. Because of my experiences and problems others have had, I removed my RSL and stopped jumping my new Reflex container.

I would also like to know what RSL and container induced problems you have had. I have never heard of an RSL causing a problem that would require a cutaway. What is wrong with the new Reflex containers?
I see you live in Akron. Jumping at Aerohio? If so, have you spoken with Tim or Sherry regarding your problems with your rig? I would think that the DZO's - wherever you jump - would be very interested in why you have had to chop 3 times in 125 jumps.
Mike