Bodyflight Progression Problem

[wan2doit 6]

I am a fun flyer - one skill (bak side slide) away from IBA level 2.

Problem - My Belly flying wind speed is limited by my ability to arch to get down (only way I know to drop down). When Bak flying I fly at a higher speed but if I transition to belly I go up high and have problem getting down.

I like combining both types of flying and appreciate any advise to help me get over this progression hurdle.

Video example of my problem - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTz0_cs0Ub8&feature=youtu.be

At 12-14 I enter at more than normal belly speed and am pushed up and take a while to get down.

At 13-13 coach increases speed to help me bak fly easier

At 13-19 I do bak to belly feet under and go up high unintentionally again and take time to get back down. That's the problem I want to solve.

Now this video is in the Original iFLY Orlando at it's last overnight camp and I have flown the new Ft Lauderdale tunnel that has a different wind profile where wind speed dramatically increases JMO from what it is down low as u get over about 10 ft up so my problem mentioned herewill be greater there which caused me to come here for help so I don't get lost 30 ft up in a modern tunnel. :)

I have been told that if I get stuck up high in tunnel to just roll on my bak to get down (which I understand) but my personal preference would to be to descend while on belly when I choose to.

Thanks in advance for any advise.

[chips26 4]

Learn to back fly in lower speeds.

[wan2doit 6]

Reasonable solution chips except that my belly speed doesn't facilitate performing more advanced skill in a smooth well executed manner albeit I may resort to that if that's what it takes - Thanks.

[Blis 1]

Chin up, open up your chest more, relax those arms and stop hugging the air...

At your current level arching is not the problem, it's the rest of body...

ps. spend a lot more time on low speed back flying..

[wan2doit 6]

Thanks Blis - Understood but What does it mean to "open the chest more"

[sammielu 3]

You need more time. Keep flying, you'll get there.

[Blis 1]

wan2doit

Thanks Blis - Understood but What does it mean to "open the chest more"

Imagine squeezing your shoulder blades together while keeping your shoulders back and down...

[NWPoul 1]

On your back you more falling than flying: head goes up an foward, back is curved to net, legs are flew up)
You don't need higher airspeed to be comfort on your back at all - just take a breath (open chest give some backsurface to the wind) arch slightly in a lowerback and take your legs under your conrol (at the transition it's even more important so you stop tumbling)

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

[wan2doit 6]

Got it blis - will do.

[wan2doit 6]

Right on Poul - I have done what u recommend - get kind of scared looking backwards at the wall but will take what u say to heart - my coaches have told me that too - between fear and hard headedness, forgetfullness (pushing 70 yrs old) I haven't caught on to doing it yet. I will focus on it though and put all the advise here to good use.

[wan2doit 6]

Interesting how 3 people gave similar advise to me. Main thing being learn to fly slower, arch, head back, open chest. I do appreciate this advise and will put it to use soon.

Just want to say Thanks to you all again.

[piisfish 140]

You wrote that you are 70. Maybe your athletic ability and learning capacity are not the same as if you were 20. No disrespect. I am 40+ and I quickly realised that no matter what, I would never reach the level I would like.

As said above, try flying in slower speeds, you will discover how your body can move.

Have fun, and please, bak is not a word, unless you are 14.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[KRBKV 0]

Hi,

I would like to give you my a few pennies.

As of me, i like your back fly position in general. I would change a few things.

Head. Try to imagine you let your head "fall". I think this would be enough.

Feets. While flying try to point you heels a little bit, maintaining clear 90 deg angle between feets and calfs, like you're sitting on the chair with your feets flat on the floor. This habit gives you more control over your whole leg while doing any kind of transitions. Back to belly, back to sit etc.

Legs as a complex. While flying low, try to keep your knees closer and at the same time try to twist your heels a little bit outside moving your calfs a little bit apart. This habit could give you more control over your feets while making turns with legs and side slides and of course doing back to sit transitions.

That's it! Have fun!

[wan2doit 6]

Thanks KRBKV

Will follow all advise here since (to be honest) I've heard a lot of it from local coaches but it seems like I tell myself to do it but when I get in tunnel I forget a lot plus the 9 versus 1000 hour factor. ;)

Definitely will try to concentrate more on the basics which I may have tried to get ahead of.

Next time in tunnel it will be mostly basic bak fly at reasonable wind speed for my experience level (e.g. iFLY Orlando 75% and iFLY Ft Lauderdale 57%).

Thanks Again

[EvilGenius 0]

Hey,

If you're allowed to, stand in the tunnel door, stick one leg in at a time and try to feel the wind. My instructor gave me this tip when I was learning to sit-fly and it really drove home the importance of 'pushing heels down'/'pulling toes up. Seriously without this tension your leg is just plain floppy and pretty useless.

As a bonus this is also free! ;-)

[wan2doit 6]

Will add heel tension to my back flying. My memory will be put to the test next time in the wind. This makes much sense - especially as I've watched my feet flop around all the time for a long time on my dvd's.

Considering my brain I should print this thread out and carry it in the tunnel to refer to while flying the next time - actually wish I could. :) Idea - print list of form changes - tape outside tunnel (upside down) so it can be read with my head fallen off - sounds like a plan - Right?

Change is on it's way - Thanks A Lot Evil Genius - especially for skipping the invoice. ;)

[KRBKV 0]

wan2doit

plus the 9 versus 1000 hour factor. ;)

Let the numbers not hesitate you! It's about the same time of coaching sessions i gave as well. Good luck!

[wan2doit 6]

HaHa just noticed the critique on my spelling of "bak" - It's intentional when discussing bodyflight - not sure why? Maybe due to wanting to bak fly quicker - not suceeding at that so I cut a letter to type "bak" fly quicker.

OBTW I do feel like about age 14 in the tunnel so possibly that's why. ;)

All help appreciated though.

[wan2doit 6]

Got to put the advise to work last night for 10 minutes at the shiny new iFLY Ft Lauderdale.

It all worked and improvements were evident to me.

Not enough time but will do 30 min at the Apr 21 overnight camp.

Side slides still marginal but improving.. Seems like a few more side to sides in the tunnel each time b4 I lose it.

Truth be known I did forget this and that from time to time - I didn't tape the advise given to the outside of the tunnel but will next time. :) I do believe I need it - just seein' it will be the reminder I need at this point.

The feet under flips really improved doing the heel points.

Thanks to All Again.

[danwayland 0]

Each body position has a range of speeds one can fly it.
I bet that you will have plenty of overlap if you keep at it.
That is to say, you will find a nice range of speeds within which you can go up and down on your belly and your back.

If I were you, just to make it easy on myself to get a shoe horn into that range and start expanding it, I might try a speed that's a little faster than is comfortable on my belly, but I can still bellyfly down just fine.

I might then try some backflying at that speed. Can I go straight up and straight down? Can I go up and towards my feet? Can I go up and towards my head?

And then some belly flying at that same speed. Can I go straight up and down? Can I go down and towards my feet? Can I go down and towards my head.

Man, I wish there were a way for one person to say something and the other person to then do it (I wish this for my own learning).
Like when backflying, dig your heels in and feel the air on your calves. Or arch your back a little and feel it cupping the air.
But there's just nothing anybody can say that makes it possible for somebody else to do it without getting in there and messing it up a bunch of times until it happens.
Which is what I do.

But you will VERY likely be able to expand how slow you can fly your back and how fast you can fly your belly such that there's significant overlap.

--
Dan Wayland
http://www.danwayland.com