T.I. constantly unstable

[matthewcline 0]

I would handle the ones you didn't want but I am right there with you on all accounts (except my face is well known and not handsom)

Seriously If the DZ saw an USPA or Manf, I/E "Inspector" might be showing up it may make a few I's and DZO's pick up the standards a bit.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[timmyfitz 0]

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but I'm sure many would take on the job for the sake of safety concerning these TI's in question!

Did you even think about that before you posted it?

Wow.

[tat2guy 0]

ok so i put 2 exits together 1st 2 i found in my video libery, they happen to be pretty recent. as you can see his body position isnt even what we teach tandem students, infact the opposite. so let me know what you guys think



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN4Vhzb_Xqs

[Psychonaut 0]

You make a valid point, but in order for the TI to be noticed as in question, someone has to jump with him. So you either find out that way, or by watching a video of the jump he took an innocent, unknowing paying customer.

I might have worded it wrong; I don't mean for a TE to be sent specifically to a TI in question to 'make a verdict', I mean for TE's or whomever to be sent to random DZ's, jump with random TI's, at random times.

I agree with you, if the TI is already in question, there shouldn't be any more jumps until something is figured out.

Stay high pull low

[buff 0]

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ok so i put 2 exits together 1st 2 i found in my video libery, they happen to be pretty recent. as you can see his body position isnt even what we teach tandem students, infact the opposite. so let me know what you guys think



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN4Vhzb_Xqs

Yea that's pretty bad and I'm not a TI. He looks like he has the student bear hugged and leg hooked and then tumbles a couple of times and only gets his hands out right before pitching. From what I can tell, he still has his legs hooking the student both times at deployment. I don't even see an attempt at an arch to get stable.

Is he wearing kneepads?

It's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude.
If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough.
That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama

[murps2000 86]

On the second jump it looks like he went for the drogue twice, but didn't get a solid purchase on the handle the first time. Might have been lucky he didn't , with the 360's on the hill and all. Luck is a shallow reservoir when your a TI. Keep shooting for the guy and you might get some nice side spin footage for us.

Tandemonium at it's best.

[davelepka 4]

Well, the cat's out of the bag now.

Before we get the TI, here's a tip for you - zoom in one notch on your video camera. The inside of your D-box and the sliver of your googles/face will disappear from your videos.

That guy has 1000 tandems? He's not doing anything to position himself into the relative wind. His arms are wrapped around the student, and hold their hands on the harness, and his legs are wrapped around the students legs which prevents him from arching.

Either punching out an arch, or getting his arms and legs into the wind to use as control surfaces would probably result in a belly-to-the-wind orientation at least 75% of the time. Doing both would up that to 95%.

It's scary, and I don't blame you for hanging back a bit until he gets the drouge out. I'm not sure I'd want to be tight to that action either.

Your DZo has to be able to recognize that this is not a good situation, and that some remedial training and tiny bit of effort on the part of the TI would make this go away.

1000 times? Really? The amazing part is that nothing has gone wrong thus far.

[rhys 0]

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LOL- how many experienced skydivers actually WANT to do tandems?

I don't know what youy are doing over there but where I am from it is a great job with the best hours and pay, around!

i earn about $80k (as well as my wife), take time off for competitions and boogies, and don't have to go to work when it rains or is too windy?

What is it that is so unapealing to you about tandems?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[PhreeZone 20]

She was referring to riding front side. Not many people are offering up to ride on the front of every new or questionable TI that comes in the door.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[tat2guy 0]

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Well, the cat's out of the bag now.

Before we get the TI, here's a tip for you - zoom in one notch on your video camera. The inside of your D-box and the sliver of your googles/face will disappear from your videos.

That guy has 1000 tandems? He's not doing anything to position himself into the relative wind. His arms are wrapped around the student, and hold their hands on the harness, and his legs are wrapped around the students legs which prevents him from arching.

Either punching out an arch, or getting his arms and legs into the wind to use as control surfaces would probably result in a belly-to-the-wind orientation at least 75% of the time. Doing both would up that to 95%.

It's scary, and I don't blame you for hanging back a bit until he gets the drouge out. I'm not sure I'd want to be tight to that action either.

Your DZo has to be able to recognize that this is not a good situation, and that some remedial training and tiny bit of effort on the part of the TI would make this go away.

1000 times? Really? The amazing part is that nothing has gone wrong thus far.

thanks for the tip about zoomin in a notch. i had just got a hd .3 lens a few months ago i love it compaired to my .5

yes he really has that many tandems. he took his girlfriend as his passenger on his 1000th tandem 2 summers ago now.

his body position is the same on every tandem. i watch him teach the students to arch on the ground so i know he knows how.

do you guys think he could get in a side spin if he just throws the drogue no matter what?

im glad i posted the vid and now have positive reinforcement that its a scary thing.

[tat2guy 0]

Is he wearing kneepads?

[tat2guy 0]

so i just thought of another question, it was probably 2 summers ago now, he had some sort of a malfunction when he went to pull the drogue release. the drogue was gone, it had ripped somewere on the briddle.. so the question is. could that be caused do to him throwing it at higher speeds since he tumbles which he builds up speed quickly and then throwing it unstable?

seems like that could be really hard on the gear. or am i just over thinking things.

[VerticalRush 0]

What I see is that he is trying to fly the students body. He is so concerned with the students feet and leg position that he is wrapping his legs and feet around the students legs, trying to pull them back. It also appears he is holding the students hand to the harness. My guess is something scared him pretty bad early in his career.

In my opinion he does understand the importance of a good arch. However, he does not understand that it is far more important that he arches and flies his body. Once he fully understands that he will learn that a solid instructor can out fly even the worst student body positions. I would strongly encourage some re-training. It will be a hard habit for him to break.

[rhys 0]

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She was referring to riding front side. Not many people are offering up to ride on the front of every new or questionable TI that comes in the door.

Oh, In that case, an examiner would have already made that decision for themseleves.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[tombuch 0]

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However, he does not understand that it is far more important that he arches and flies his body. Once he fully understands that he will learn that a solid instructor can out fly even the worst student body positions. I would strongly encourage some re-training. It will be a hard habit for him to break.

That's exactly what I was thinking. The simple answer for him is: "Don't fight it, fly it." Flying is safer, looks better on video, and it's even easier. Crap, it takes way to much energy to grab a student and fight so aggressively to try and get stable. Just flying your own body is way easier, and much more effective. Heck, it's even more fun! That should be a simple retrain, and with appropriate oversight should get him flying safer and smiling in just a couple dozen jumps.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[Mixoligist 0]

I wouldn't let that TI jump my goggles...... never mind a passenger.
Drogue entanglement/side spin are inevitable.
Just a matter of time. Not if, but when.

..................................
Better you than me
..................................

[douwanto 22]

This guy is not flying anything he is so scared he is going to loose the passenger he is just tumbling from the plane wrapped around them and hoping to find a good rotational point to toss the drogue.......I know he is placing every passenger he takes into danger and the DZO at Superior needs to find other Instructors before putting 1 more student up with this TI.........

Is that too hard for some of you..........??
let the drogue get between him and a passenger and then let me know.....

I would sit this guy down and tell him to find another job................

At 1000 tandems any TI should have some sort of exit control now anyone can have a bad exit or 2 but there is no reason for deploying the drogue upside down and on his side ..............

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

[riggerrob 643]

"

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What I see is that he is trying to fly the students body. . . .

....................................................................................................

Yes, that is the way they taught me to "fly the student's body" ... when I became a TI 24 years ago.
Since then, I have learned to out-fly them by taking a long, wide stance and flying a bigger "X" than we used to teach to static-line students.
I have long arms and even longer legs and few students are tall enough to out-reach me.
And I cheat by teaching students a very small, very narrow version of the arch. If they ask why they should cross their hands over their chests, I mumble something about narrow doors, but the real reason is that I am greedy and I want to be the only one with arms out.

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[riggerrob 643]

" ... do you guys think he could get in a side spin if he just throws the drogue no matter what? ..."

...............................................................................................

Officially, side-spins only occur BEFORE the drogue is tossed, however it is possible to get into a drogue-induced spin if you wrap the drogue bridle around a leg or neck.
Either is considered bad form and will result in a "TALKING TO" from the local TE at most DZs.

[riggerrob 643]

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so i just thought of another question, it was probably 2 summers ago now, he had some sort of a malfunction when he went to pull the drogue release. the drogue was gone, it had ripped somewhere on the bridle.. so the question is. could that be caused do to him throwing it at higher speeds since he tumbles which he builds up speed quickly and then throwing it unstable?

seems like that could be really hard on the gear. or am i just over thinking things.

"

..................................................................................................

You are not over-thinking things.
Instead, your thinking matches factory knowledge.

Tossing the drogue - while going too fast - definitely wears out drogues pre-maturely, but rarely wrecks a drogue on the first incident.
That sort of wear and tear is supposed to be caught - and repaired - by the local rigger when he does 25-jump-inspections (see the latest inspection guide published by Strong Enterprises).

That is why drogues were invented to begin with: to prevent hard openings that pre-maturely wear out main canopies.
That is also why tandem terminal should rarely be done, and is normally limited to training dives, under the supervision of a TE.
Tossing drogues at tandem terminal (up to 200 miles per hour) just wears out drogues too soon!

Maybe the OP should show this video to the DZO and explain why his gear is wearing out so quickly.
One or two refresher jumps with a TE would be far less expensive than what the DZO is currently paying for spare parts.

Rob Warner
Strong Tandem Examiner
CSPA Rigger Examiner

[fcajump 164]

Almost looks like he is starting off the dive 1/2 through the side-spin recovery procedures...

That observation, along with more information on his past experiences (especially any bad ones) might explain why he is starting the dive that way.

Not justifying, just trying to understand.

I would suggest that a TI/E (or at least the DZO) talk with this TI... hopefully the TI will be receptive to constructive criticism...


JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[skyjumpenfool 2]

Even TI's need instruction. This one may need it sooner than later?? But, hopefully, he'll learn and improve. Don't write him off, but see to it he gets training. Thanks for posting this.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[coretanima 0]

I agree with you tat2guy. You already knew that. DZ in question really willing to put safety first?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Sorry, I think there may be some head up some ass. Just saying. Good to post though. S&TA may be more interested when it's in a public forum.

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