How NOT to throw a drogue - video

[skydiverek 63]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykI4fhFhK9w&fmt=18

[BIGUN 1,405]

This how NOT to throw rocks. Watch it again.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[halorob 0]

That Seahawk has terrible body position and a very large head!

[pchapman 279]

How not to throw rocks? You arguing for or against?

We all have our bad drogue tosses but that still looks like a really bad one.


Oh, silly me, I must have missed the point:

The guy in the video is from Red Bull, so it must be an intentional toss while rolling 360 after exit. It's just like a low altitude BASE layout backloop: Pull early, PC is out to the side while one is rotating, and the canopy comes off one's back while rotating level again.

So he's just demonstrating his awesome drogue toss timing skillz, releasing it back to wind so that it barely misses the student's legs. Wish I were so good.

[BrianM 1]

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so that it barely misses the student's legs.

Barely misses? Look again (see attached).

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[pchapman 279]

You sure had a close look there Brian! So there was drogue and bridle on the student's leg.

It's all about the exciting ride these days. If everything went right all the time, it wouldn't be EXTREME would it!

[JohnDeere 0]

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That Seahawk has terrible body position and a very large head!

Its cool to blame it all on the Seahawk but it looks like everything is pretty stable until the instructor wraps his right leg around front causing the barrel roll Im not saying its all him fault but he sure helped it.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[lowpull 0]

What a shitty Tandem I (and I use the I loosely).
Unfortuneately, this is the now the norm on most dz's now, not the exception.

[Para5-0 0]

FYI, I am having a flashback here. About ten years ago, I took a costume character with a very similar head piece (A large nose). As soon as we left it acted at a rudder and forced us onto our side. All attempts to get belly down resulted in us both ending up on our side. The passenger was an experienced TI wearing the costume, so it was not his body position. Needless to say the drogue may have come out without being in the best position.lol
It all worked out but it was a fairly scary demo.
Glad this one worked out as well.

[JohnDeere 0]

That does make sense. I have watched it a few more times and can see were that could have contributed.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[halorob 0]

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Quote

That Seahawk has terrible body position and a very large head!

Its cool to blame it all on the Seahawk but it looks like everything is pretty stable until the instructor wraps his right leg around front causing the barrel roll Im not saying its all him fault but he sure helped it.

I wasn't casting the blame at the Seahawk, LOL. I was just trying to divert the attention from the horrible drogue toss I just noticed the leg thing too. I'm just glad nothing happened to the Seahawks mascot, they'd end up like 5-11 without him. Oh Wait, they were 5-11 last year

[NovaTTT 2]

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As soon as we left it acted at a rudder and forced us onto our side.

I see what you're saying but it doesn't look like that's what's going on here.

It looks like the pair started to drop right when the TI reached and then, for some reason, he wrapped his right leg around the Seahawk and amped the twist/barrelroll. The TI held onto the drogue for a brief moment until his right side was outside the rotation.

The first 1.5 secs (prior to reach) looks solid.

.02

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[halorob 0]

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How not to throw rocks? You arguing for or against?

We all have our bad drogue tosses but that still looks like a really bad one.


Oh, silly me, I must have missed the point:

The guy in the video is from Red Bull, so it must be an intentional toss while rolling 360 after exit. It's just like a low altitude BASE layout backloop: Pull early, PC is out to the side while one is rotating, and the canopy comes off one's back while rotating level again.

So he's just demonstrating his awesome drogue toss timing skillz, releasing it back to wind so that it barely misses the student's legs. Wish I were so good.

It does kinda look like the roll was intentional BUT sketchy looking at best. I'm sure its not the first time a drogue shoot has come in contact with the tandem. But because he is on Red Bull I'm sure he will be tar'd and feather'd.

[halorob 0]

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What a shitty Tandem I (and I use the I loosely).
Unfortuneately, this is the now the norm on most dz's now, not the exception.

. . .

[riggerrob 643]

Good thing the feathers are close at hand!
Hah!
Hah!

[LukeAikins 0]

Man you guys are right that guy is a shitty tandem instructor we should look at getting him in trouble. No better yet lets kick his ass. No better yet lets kill him. He is a member of the Red Bull team they do nothing to help the sport they just take and take and think the rules don't apply to them. We could just line them up and take them all out at once. I have seen almost all of that guys exits and they all suck just as bad.

[skydog 2]

Trouble is that if you live by the sword then you die by the sword...........

As TI's we have all fucked up and will continue to do so, but by sacrificing safety for "cool" then you are going to get criticised.

With all your jumps it shouldn't have taken a lot to work out the physics of how that would go.

As Red Bull AirForce you have access to a wider audience than most and therefore have a greater responsibility to be better.

Journey not destination.....

[jimmytavino 16]

i've seen worse......

one thing is for SURE...

that cameraperson MUST be spending a LOT of time deleting
pictures, from the still camera.....
if the pace of shutter firings, shown after landing, is any indication... there must have been a hundred pics. taken,,, during the skydive..
jmy

[peek 21]

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Man you guys are right that guy is a shitty tandem instructor we should look at getting him in trouble.

Luke, you mean they didn't tell you? That you are on triple-secret probation?

[LukeAikins 0]

Zero Point Zero....

[davelepka 4]

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Mr. Aikins Zero Point Zero....

Zero point zero is some funny shit.

The truth is, this could have gone very wrong. Rolling over like that with the drouge coming out is just asking for it to get wrapped around something. Not caught on a foot, which could be kicked off, but wrapped, as in never coming off and making for some real trouble later on when handles start getting pulled. We've all seen the video of the drouge wrapped around the jumpers neck.

The problem here is that any way you slice it, the TI fucked up. If the guy in the suit was an experienced jumper or a first timer, the plan should have been for a stable exit, hands on harness and legs in between the TI, follwed by a clean drouge throw and then start rocking out for camera.

Regardless of who was in the suit, it needed to be stressed that a clean exit was essential, and that any sort of 'antics' were to be reserved for after the TI had signaled that it was appropriate.

As for the TI or their qualifications, that should be of no consequence. If your claim is that there is a level of expereince that makes the roll-over to drouge toss OK, then you are way off base. That roll should have been unintentional, unwanted, and a wake up call to the TI. If it was anything but that, the TI, regardless of their experience needs their rating pulled. No circumstance on earth would make planning that manuver acceptable.

[pbwing 0]

...and look how well he did. He went on to become a US Senator!!

[diablopilot 2]

I'd say the point to be taken here is that EVERY TI out there can and probably has tanked an exit. It happens. I am VERY sure that the TI in this video is aware of the risks involved with an unstable drogue toss and doesn't need a crucifixion to learn a lesson about it here.

However, here is a lesson on controlling our media collectively as a sport. Why a major company like Red Bull who has resources to spare, or even an individual who doesn't would put a mistake out there like this for public consumption is confusing.

Not only can it have the effect of endorsing "cowboy" behavior in the eyes of those don't know any better, but it opens up the door of liability.

I've worked for DZ's that don't care about the product that leaves the video room, and in this day of public media access I think that is a scary position. Other DZ's will have a "video mal" if something not suitable for public consumption is shot.

The bigger challenge these days is every Joe on the DZ has a GoPro on their head and many have no judgment about what is sensible to post, and what should be kept under tight wraps. Too often it's an ego and a desire to "have the cool shot" that prevail.

Does the hypothetical person with the great shot of the airplane diving after a tandem exit realize that the N-number is visible? The FAA has already told our people at USPA HQ that they are looking at social media sites including YouTube. They have commented on winsuits flying by tandems, they pointed out that tandem demos into stadiums are against FAA policy. There are eyes out there, and they are not limited to the FAA.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[lowpull 0]

Excellent post Sir!!!

Eloquent, concise, and to the point.

Well spoken!!

ralph

[riggerrob 643]

Well said Diablopilot!

That reminds me of the "bloopers" tape that Perris Valley Skydiving School used to show to new instructors.

PVSS management never wanted it released to the general public for fear that some ambulance-chasing lawyer would use it as evidence against them in a lawsuit.

Similarly, Jay Stokes has compiled a "tandem horror stories" video that is only supposed to be shown during TICC.