piisfish 140 #51 March 16, 2010 QuoteBTW, has the TI chimed in. I didn't see any posts that directly state he was the TI.If I am not wrong, Post 44scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #52 March 16, 2010 QuoteIs there a required time to throw out the drogue? What is optimal? Also, if one does encounter a knarly spin on exit what is the EP? Sorry for being a douche earlier. The faster you're going when you deploy the drogue, the more wear and tear on it. The sooner you huck on exit, the slower you're going. So, from a gear maintenance perspective, the sooner the better. For safety, though, to avoid entanglements, you need to be belly-into-the -wind. If that takes a few seconds, then you should wait. In training, we all do at least one drogueless freefall, reaching speeds of ~170 mph. We then huck the drogue about 2000+ above pull alt. to slow down some prior to deployment. I have had one unstable drogue throw, a little girl taking me for a ride with bad body position. It was her second tandem and she really caught me off guard. We were on our left side, and I couldn't get us belly to earth. There was blue sky above my right side, so I pitched. Lesson learned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #53 March 16, 2010 QuoteIs there a required time to throw out the drogue? What is optimal? Also, if one does encounter a knarly spin on exit what is the EP? Wear and tear in the drouge is one issue, but the larger issue is tandem terminal. A tandem pair with no drouge will be falling at 150 or 160 mph. If a TI should have a problem deploying the drouge such as a hard pull, collapsed drouge, or broken drouge bridle, it will becoem impossible to deploy the main, and they will be forced to use the reserve. The longer you wait to throw the drouge, the more speed will build before you discover a possible problem with the drouge, and the higher your airspeed will be once you do dump the reserve. The SOP for a drouge problem is to immediately deploy the reserve (again, in an effort to keep the deployment airspeed low). Tandem reserves are designed and packed to open much slower than sport reserves for this very reason. Even then, high speed deployments only increase the risk of damage to the reserve during deployment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #54 March 16, 2010 QuoteQuotethey pointed out that tandem demos into stadiums are against FAA policy. Where might that be in the FAR's? It's not in the FAR's. However it is in the FAA FSIMS 8900.1 document which is guidance to the FSDO's. Volume 3, Chapter 6, Section 1, Part 3-150 sub F. QuoteF. Tandem Jump Demonstrations. 1) Tandem jumps will only be authorized in open field and Level I landing areas. 2) The tandem jump master must be approved by the USPA to conduct tandem jumps. 3) The passenger (or “rider”) requires no previous jump experience or license.http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?docId=1A1C9ED8BC5A40638525734F00766576 These are the flight standards that FSDO's are supposed to use when issuing certificates of waiver or authorization. This document and section were brought to the USPA's attention by FAA HQ after the viewing of the Shannon Sharpe demo into Mile Hi Stadium. The DZ and USPA covered all bases when it issued the waiver for the demo, and I must say the jumpers involved pulled it off very well. The local FSDO made the error of not following the 8900.1 guidance. Now that it's been pointed out, the USPA has indicated it will not be approving any more waivers for Level 2 or Stadium Tandem jumps until such time that the document has been changed.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #55 March 16, 2010 halorob, If you want people to take you seriously, try completing your profile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #56 March 16, 2010 QuoteIs there a required time to throw out the drogue? What is optimal? Also, if one does encounter a knarly spin on exit what is the EP? ................................................................ Strong Enterprises recommends throwing the drogue 3 to 5 seconds after exit. Less than 2 seconds and you risk wrapping the drogue around the tail wheel. More than 6 seconds and you increase wear-and-tear on the drogue. The other problem with late drogue tosses is that you get dangerously close to tandem terminal. Tandem terminal wears out drogues so quickly that it is only supposed to be done under the supervision of Tandem Examiners, and only during TICC or refresher training. As for gnarly, unstable exits - that you cannot straighten out - deploy before you get going too fast. In awkward scenarios (eg. side spin left side down), toss that drogue. The worst case scenario involves a side spin (right side down) in which case the preferred cure is pulling the reserve ripcord before you get going too fast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites halorob 0 #57 March 16, 2010 http://www.jumpshack.com/tm_course.pdf I did a search for references on tandem info. Was all I could find. Does anyone else have some good info they would like to share? Do TI's have to get qualified on on all rigs or just what ever thier DZ uses? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crazydiver 0 #58 March 16, 2010 QuoteI did a search for references on tandem info. [url "http://www.jumpshack.com/tm_course.pdf"] Was all I could find. Does anyone else have some good info they would like to share? Do TI's have to get qualified on on all rigs or just what ever thier DZ uses? A tandem instructor wishing to do tandem instruction jumps at a USPA group member DZ must get a general tandem rating with USPA and through whichever manufacturer they want to be certified to jump with. IE, I took separate courses for my Sigma/Vector and my Strong ratings. Once you have one, however, crossover training is pretty simple compared to the entire tandem course. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #59 March 16, 2010 "Quote... Do TI's have to get qualified on on all rigs or just what ever their DZ uses?" ...................................................................... The vast majority of TIs only train/qualify on one type of tandem rig. For example:I qualified on Vector and Strong the same week, back in 1986. Since then I have done a couple hundred jumps on Vector I and Vector II, bt am no longer current on Vectors. Since 1993 I have only worked at Strong Tandem DZs, so have made over 4,000 jumps on Strongs and earned a Strong Tandem Examiner rating. Back in 1996, I also earned a Racer TI rating, but have only done a handful of jumps on Racer Tandems and do not even pretend to be current! Basic operating principles and practices are the same for all tandem rigs. The difference lies in packing and handle location. Handle locations differ just enough to kill you! For example: I hate to admit how many times (in the mid 1980s) I have roared through 5,000 feet fumbling for a drogue release handle on the lower left corner of a Strong! Jumping two different tandem rigs - the same day- is stupid = a quick way to crater! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #60 March 17, 2010 QuoteMan you guys are right that guy is a shitty tandem instructor we should look at getting him in trouble. No better yet lets kick his ass. No better yet lets kill him. He is a member of the Red Bull team they do nothing to help the sport they just take and take and think the rules don't apply to them. We could just line them up and take them all out at once. I have seen almost all of that guys exits and they all suck just as bad. Yeah.. that guy should stick to flying the plane for the wind dummy loads to check out the cloud base.... MAN would I hate to jump with that guy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 140 #61 March 17, 2010 Quote A tandem pair with no drouge will be falling at 150 or 160 mph. unless the pair flies "tandemnauti" scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NovaTTT 2 #62 March 17, 2010 Quote unless the pair flies "tandemnauti" Hilarious!"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites feuergnom 28 #63 March 17, 2010 Quote Quote A tandem pair with no drouge will be falling at 150 or 160 mph. unless the pair flies "tandemnauti" i live in europe. not stinking regulations here. guess i know what to learn this summer The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 5 #64 March 17, 2010 If you want your rating in Tandemnauti, you have to see JP Furnari. He's the only Tandemnauti I/E out there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 140 #65 March 17, 2010 you haven't obviously clicked HERE yetscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crazydiver 0 #66 March 17, 2010 Quote you haven't obviously clicked HERE yet Look at that super steep tracking dive with a tandem. No wait, I mean look at that amazingly fast forward speed on that head down flocking dive with a tandem. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #67 March 18, 2010 Quoteyou haven't obviously clicked HERE yet I'll just make a list - 1.Fancy that! The tandem pax is a hot chick with her own pair of matching pants 2. I would challenge any of those jumpers to dump during the 'tandem-o-nutty', and if they wouldn't that's why it's a dumb idea. If the TI has a problem with the drouge, he'll be dumping the reserve at a 'less than ideal' airspeed 3. With all those cameras, not one of them got a decent exit shot 4. How come the camera guys wash all over the place trying to fly in their slot 5. Why is there a zoo of people directly up the relative wind from the tandem pair? An improperly rigged drouge turns into a really big pilot chute, and none of those guys looked ready for the drouge toss. If it had turned into a main deployment, it would have made the newspaper for sure. 6. What's that length of toilet paper hanging of the TIs foot supposed to prove? That a tandem can barely do the atmo thingy? 7. I guess that's it. Is that enough for one tandem video? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #68 March 18, 2010 QuoteI'll just make a list - 1.Fancy that! The tandem pax is a hot chick with her own pair of matching pants You mean you dont provide a matching set of kit for your passengers?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ozzy13 0 #69 March 18, 2010 I still say they should call it tracking. Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hairymango 0 #70 March 20, 2010 track that TM down and burn him at the stake for making a mistake. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpwally 0 #71 March 31, 2010 I can't wait for tandem wingsuiting !!!! smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 2 #72 March 31, 2010 Quote I can't wait for tandem wingsuiting !!!! Been done, quite a while ago already. At least 2 times by a jumper I know, and I found another one on youtube. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #73 April 5, 2010 Wow, can I get paid extra for tracking on my next tandem jump? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Bolas 5 #74 April 5, 2010 Quote Wow, can I get paid extra for tracking on my next tandem jump? The next time you have more TM's and passengers than camera flyers, just all do a big tandem tracking jump. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Heatmiser 0 #75 April 5, 2010 Quote Quote I can't wait for tandem wingsuiting !!!! Been done, quite a while ago already. At least 2 times by a jumper I know, and I found another one on youtube. Is it normal for the drogue to collapse before inflation begins? Not a T.I. so could be a dumb questionWhat you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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halorob 0 #57 March 16, 2010 http://www.jumpshack.com/tm_course.pdf I did a search for references on tandem info. Was all I could find. Does anyone else have some good info they would like to share? Do TI's have to get qualified on on all rigs or just what ever thier DZ uses? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #58 March 16, 2010 QuoteI did a search for references on tandem info. [url "http://www.jumpshack.com/tm_course.pdf"] Was all I could find. Does anyone else have some good info they would like to share? Do TI's have to get qualified on on all rigs or just what ever thier DZ uses? A tandem instructor wishing to do tandem instruction jumps at a USPA group member DZ must get a general tandem rating with USPA and through whichever manufacturer they want to be certified to jump with. IE, I took separate courses for my Sigma/Vector and my Strong ratings. Once you have one, however, crossover training is pretty simple compared to the entire tandem course. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #59 March 16, 2010 "Quote... Do TI's have to get qualified on on all rigs or just what ever their DZ uses?" ...................................................................... The vast majority of TIs only train/qualify on one type of tandem rig. For example:I qualified on Vector and Strong the same week, back in 1986. Since then I have done a couple hundred jumps on Vector I and Vector II, bt am no longer current on Vectors. Since 1993 I have only worked at Strong Tandem DZs, so have made over 4,000 jumps on Strongs and earned a Strong Tandem Examiner rating. Back in 1996, I also earned a Racer TI rating, but have only done a handful of jumps on Racer Tandems and do not even pretend to be current! Basic operating principles and practices are the same for all tandem rigs. The difference lies in packing and handle location. Handle locations differ just enough to kill you! For example: I hate to admit how many times (in the mid 1980s) I have roared through 5,000 feet fumbling for a drogue release handle on the lower left corner of a Strong! Jumping two different tandem rigs - the same day- is stupid = a quick way to crater! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #60 March 17, 2010 QuoteMan you guys are right that guy is a shitty tandem instructor we should look at getting him in trouble. No better yet lets kick his ass. No better yet lets kill him. He is a member of the Red Bull team they do nothing to help the sport they just take and take and think the rules don't apply to them. We could just line them up and take them all out at once. I have seen almost all of that guys exits and they all suck just as bad. Yeah.. that guy should stick to flying the plane for the wind dummy loads to check out the cloud base.... MAN would I hate to jump with that guy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #61 March 17, 2010 Quote A tandem pair with no drouge will be falling at 150 or 160 mph. unless the pair flies "tandemnauti" scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 2 #62 March 17, 2010 Quote unless the pair flies "tandemnauti" Hilarious!"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 28 #63 March 17, 2010 Quote Quote A tandem pair with no drouge will be falling at 150 or 160 mph. unless the pair flies "tandemnauti" i live in europe. not stinking regulations here. guess i know what to learn this summer The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #64 March 17, 2010 If you want your rating in Tandemnauti, you have to see JP Furnari. He's the only Tandemnauti I/E out there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #65 March 17, 2010 you haven't obviously clicked HERE yetscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #66 March 17, 2010 Quote you haven't obviously clicked HERE yet Look at that super steep tracking dive with a tandem. No wait, I mean look at that amazingly fast forward speed on that head down flocking dive with a tandem. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #67 March 18, 2010 Quoteyou haven't obviously clicked HERE yet I'll just make a list - 1.Fancy that! The tandem pax is a hot chick with her own pair of matching pants 2. I would challenge any of those jumpers to dump during the 'tandem-o-nutty', and if they wouldn't that's why it's a dumb idea. If the TI has a problem with the drouge, he'll be dumping the reserve at a 'less than ideal' airspeed 3. With all those cameras, not one of them got a decent exit shot 4. How come the camera guys wash all over the place trying to fly in their slot 5. Why is there a zoo of people directly up the relative wind from the tandem pair? An improperly rigged drouge turns into a really big pilot chute, and none of those guys looked ready for the drouge toss. If it had turned into a main deployment, it would have made the newspaper for sure. 6. What's that length of toilet paper hanging of the TIs foot supposed to prove? That a tandem can barely do the atmo thingy? 7. I guess that's it. Is that enough for one tandem video? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #68 March 18, 2010 QuoteI'll just make a list - 1.Fancy that! The tandem pax is a hot chick with her own pair of matching pants You mean you dont provide a matching set of kit for your passengers?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #69 March 18, 2010 I still say they should call it tracking. Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairymango 0 #70 March 20, 2010 track that TM down and burn him at the stake for making a mistake. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #71 March 31, 2010 I can't wait for tandem wingsuiting !!!! smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #72 March 31, 2010 Quote I can't wait for tandem wingsuiting !!!! Been done, quite a while ago already. At least 2 times by a jumper I know, and I found another one on youtube. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #73 April 5, 2010 Wow, can I get paid extra for tracking on my next tandem jump? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #74 April 5, 2010 Quote Wow, can I get paid extra for tracking on my next tandem jump? The next time you have more TM's and passengers than camera flyers, just all do a big tandem tracking jump. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heatmiser 0 #75 April 5, 2010 Quote Quote I can't wait for tandem wingsuiting !!!! Been done, quite a while ago already. At least 2 times by a jumper I know, and I found another one on youtube. Is it normal for the drogue to collapse before inflation begins? Not a T.I. so could be a dumb questionWhat you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
