All the reason needed to "teach" rather than do "rides".

[diablopilot 2]

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Hi everyone! Newbie here. I just did my third tandem last week because I'm totally hooked (my instructor let me do some turns, pull the ripcord, attempt to land-all making me realize that I want to do this Myself!), but I now realize that I should just start my AFF by now instead of spending all my $$ on tandems.

Seen HERE

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[feuergnom 28]

since he/she didn't ask for FJC after the first tandem the Dz took the opportunity to make some fast bucks selling him all the tandems he wanted to do. so whats the problem /sarcasm off/

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[diablopilot 2]

Hopefully my point hasn't been missed. Nothing wrong with doing one, or three, or ten.... just that if the opportunity is given on ANY tandem, you might just find a long term customer, and heck maybe even another skydiver.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[feuergnom 28]

ok, I didn't get your point - my bad

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[timmyfitz 0]

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Hi everyone! Newbie here. I just did my third tandem last week because I'm totally hooked (my instructor let me do some turns, pull the ripcord, attempt to land-all making me realize that I want to do this Myself!), but I now realize that I should just start my AFF by now instead of spending all my $$ on tandems.

Seen HERE

If you read all of her previous post about why she did the tandems and that she has wanted to do AFF from day one, you may change your mind. But I doubt it.

[fencebuster 7]

We take people on tandems to introduce them to skydiving and grow the sport by bringing in new jumpers to the sport. I talk to every student I jump with as a TI about their "next step" if they want to be a skydiver -- AFF. Just my $.02

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[SStewart 13]

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This is not a dropzone!
It is an amusement park!

----Author unknown

Onward and Upward!

[tkhayes 348]

And the most important reason to 'teach' is:
FAR 105.45
...
(2) The person acting as parachutist in command:
(i) Has briefed the passenger parachutist before boarding the aircraft. The briefing must include the pro-
cedures to be used in case of an emergency with the aircraft or after exiting the aircraft, while preparing to exit and exiting the aircraft, freefall, operating the parachute after freefall, landing approach, and landing.
(ii) Uses the harness position prescribed by the manufacturer of the tandem parachute equipment.
...

It is federal law. Your briefing MUST include certain elements. It MUST be completed before boarding the airplane. It MUST be completed by the tandem instructor who is taking the passenger.

Since you have to do all that anyway, how much more effort does it take to give them a wrist mount alti and let them pull a ripcord at 5000', or at least try. Then teach them "Canopy 101" when under the parachute.

I do it almost every load and can manage it all on a 15 minute call. I then sign off their Cat A license card and let them know how well they did.

[ChrisRomp 0]

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Hi everyone! Newbie here. I just did my third tandem last week because I'm totally hooked (my instructor let me do some turns, pull the ripcord, attempt to land-all making me realize that I want to do this Myself!), but I now realize that I should just start my AFF by now instead of spending all my $$ on tandems.

Seen HERE

I definitely appreciated your "teaching" approach on my second tandem jump, JP. I signed up for AFF that day.

[hallux 0]

wow! Tk hayes preaching about FAR's. Now thats F'in hillarious! where was your regard for FAR's when you were flying those jumpers illegally? HAHA. God you are like the TV evangelist of FAR's. YOu should get a little stage set up at the DZ and you can preach to all the old people about FAR's while you pass a collection plate for the "spectator" fee.
Hope you know this is in fun and Im just messing with you but I really cant believe you post on here. especially about THAT. YOu totally set yourself up. I bet your pretty face is red as hell when you read this. HAHA wish i could see it. You are so cute when enraged with hatred.

love you T.K. but seriously, posting here just makes a little less cool

[tkhayes 348]

170+ posts so far for the userid 'hallux'. 92% of them personal attacks against other people, while hiding under anonymous names.....

yep, I am pretty worried/concerned/give-a-shit about what you have to say

[hallux 0]

wow did you really read 170+ post then do the math?? Im honored.
And it wasnt a personal attack it was simply a fact. Nothing personal about it. I like you and I would never attack you personally. Just wanted to point out that trying to be serious and posting here makes you way less credible. The skydiving community pretty much considers this place a joke. Its only a select few people that think thier opinions are important enough that the world needs to hear them. If no one listens to you in real life then you can come here and impress some stranger or new jumper

[tkhayes 348]

and your posts make you totally credible right?

[rhys 0]

Considering 97%+ of my customers have been first time passengers, passing thorugh 9gone in 2 days), 'WANTING' a joyride/scenic flight/get it out of the way; then teaching them all would be a waste of energy.

My customers have a great time and experience the skydiving without the stress.

Once they have jumped once, they can decide to take up skydiving, skydiving will sell skydiving.

We do have a competely different market down here in NZ and Aus than north America, so it is subjective.

Some passengers don't even want to take the controls, every customer I take has a turn at flying the parachute(except thos that would rather not) and learns a couple of things about skydiving, but for the most part they are paying $300+ to enjoy themselves not to hear me try to drum up some more business.

I completely disagree about the notion of teaching every tandem customer.

The lions share of the people I take 'would like to' but have no intention of taking up skydiving as much as bungee jumping, jet boat driving, paragliding, ice climbing, white water rafting or any of the other activities thay have done in the last week or two.

The last thing they want to have is me wanking on in thier ear about how cools skydiving is when they are trying to enjoy thier experience they have just spent a small fortune on.

Second tandem, completley different story.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[BobMoore 0]

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Some passengers don't even want to take the controls, every customer I take has a turn at flying the parachute(except thos that would rather not) and learns a couple of things about skydiving, but for the most part they are paying $300+ to enjoy themselves not to hear me try to drum up some more business.

I completely disagree about the notion of teaching every tandem customer.

The lions share of the people I take 'would like to' but have no intention of taking up skydiving as much as bungee jumping, jet boat driving, paragliding, ice climbing, white water rafting or any of the other activities thay have done in the last week or two.

The last thing they want to have is me wanking on in thier ear about how cools skydiving is when they are trying to enjoy thier experience they have just spent a small fortune on.

Second tandem, completley different story.

Wow, Mr. rhys. This is the first post of yours that I agree with.

"For you see, an airplane is an airplane. A landing area is a landing area. But a dropzone... a dropzone is the people."

[peek 21]

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Considering 97%+ of my customers ...), 'WANTING' a joyride/scenic flight/get it out of the way; then teaching them all would be a waste of energy.

How do you know? (I'm going to play Dr. Kallend here and ask you for data.)

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My customers have a great time and experience the skydiving without the stress.

I believe you. I have read many of your postings and know you care very much about your "students".

Quote

The lion's share of the people I take 'would like to' but have no intention of taking up skydiving....

How do you know?


There is an effect that I think many people do not take into consideration. For every tandem student that does a carnival ride, they are going to tell their friend about their experience, and their friends are going to come to the DZ expecting a carnival ride.

For every tandem student that is treated like a skydiver learning to skydive, they too will tell their friends, and those friends will come to the DZ expecting to be trained.

Just imagine most of your students meeting you and asking you to teach them as much as you can, and telling you that they don't just want to be a passenger.

Wouldn't that be cool?

[diablopilot 2]

What's your return rate? I'd wager that a DZ that teaches and encourages students to learn has a higher return rate, and I've seen evidence that proves it.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[rhys 0]

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What's your return rate?

fuck all, most of them have left the county within a week of jumping.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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:
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In Reply To
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Considering 97%+ of my customers ...), 'WANTING' a joyride/scenic flight/get it out of the way; then teaching them all would be a waste of energy.

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How do you know? (I'm going to play Dr. Kallend here and ask you for data.)

I ask them!

they ask me;

What is the highest you can jump from.

What is the highest 'you have' jumped from,

Can we do flips.

how many jumps a day do you do.

sound familiar?

There are some that are interested in skydiving as a passtime and those people get the information they want.

Everybody gets the inforamtion they want. I have spent many many days talking with customers, more than half of my 4000 or so tandems have required a 20 minute to 30 minute bus ride back from the landing area or to the airport resepctively, do the maths on the sitting down and talking to customer time that has gon on in my life.

MOST of them are not interested in taking up skydiving, many of them would never jump if it were not for tandems, they have the 'bucket list attitude' and I am willing to give them what they want, they just need to ask about skydiving, I am more than willing to tell them what they want or need.

We are there to provide a service to them and give them what they want, not tell them what they want or tell them that they have to do things they would rather just leave to you.

IMO an instructor that tries to push all tandem customers into AFF courses or IAD etc, is simply on their own adgenda.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[des 2]

hear hear! well said rhys

[peek 21]

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fuck all, most of them have left the county within a week of jumping.

Well, this is one of the problem attitudes. You don't care because you will never see them again, but when they go home they might just be more likely to continue skydiving there if skydiving has been presented to them as a sport rather than a carnival ride.

That would be called helping the sport rather than just helping your wallet. Perhaps I expect too much.

[diablopilot 2]

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What's your return rate?

fuck all, most of them have left the county within a week of jumping.

And that is why in the last 10 years sport jumping in NZ has all but disappeared. The "ride" attitude, has killed the sport.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[rhys 0]

Quote

Well, this is one of the problem attitudes. You don't care because you will never see them again, but when they go home they might just be more likely to continue skydiving there if skydiving has been presented to them as a sport rather than a carnival ride.

That would be called helping the sport rather than just helping your wallet. Perhaps I expect too much.

You are dancing around semantics, the question was;

what is your return rate.

This means how many people return to your dropzone for a second jump after they jump the first time.

read more carfully please.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

Quote

And that is why in the last 10 years sport jumping in NZ has all but disappeared. The "ride" attitude, has killed the sport.

get a grip.

You, me and everyone can blame the NZPIA for single handedly destroying any strength New Zealand sport skydiving had, by snavelling the part 149 off the NZPF and deciding to not charge annual fees and turn fun jumpers away from their dropzones.

Don't assume anything, Australia has very much the same carnival ride attitude with their tandems and their federation and sport skyding fraternity is among the most healthy in the world for funding and support to the sport.

It is the attitude of those that control the industry (largeDZ 'old boy' dropzone owners)in NZ, not the Instructors that have done this to NZ sport skydiving.

You watch me try and turn it around over the next few years.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[peek 21]

Quote

what is your return rate. This means how many people return to your dropzone for a second jump after they jump the first time.

I don't have much of an idea of that. I do very few tandem jumps nowdays because most commercial DZ's prefer the carnies. :)

To me the tandem student is not just another potential sale! They are someone who will tell many others of their experience, whether or not they jump again. Positive word-of-mouth marketing has more value than just another sale. (I tend to think long-term about the sport.)

Over the years I have posted numerous times the concept of having a tandem student come to us wanting to learn about skydiving, having heard about this from their friend who did such a jump.

I have never had anyone answer the question:

"Just imagine most of your students meeting you and asking you to teach them as much as you can, and telling you that they don't just want to be a passenger. Wouldn't that be cool?"

What hasn't anyone ever answered this question?