douwanto 22 #26 September 4, 2010 Great job dealing with a shitty situation the scariest Tandem I have to date was putting my reserve into a drogue attached by a miss-routed 3ring....... great pics as well although I dont know if I want the video guy that close if it releases...... Uncle/GrandPapa Whit Unico Rodriguez # 245 Muff Brother # 2421 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ataltitude 0 #27 September 4, 2010 Quote I showed the video and photos to one of our TMs this weekend (we're a Strong DZ) and he was like "Whoa!" and immediately gathered all the other TMs to see the pics and vid. I noted a slightly increased interest in the drogue releases during pre flight this weekend. :) If thats the result of saying "hey, heres what happened," then good on ya, man. You may have just helped someone else avoid a potentially fatal accident. Yes I fully agree with you on this one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Granimal 0 #28 September 5, 2010 Thanks for the post. I also had a three ring malfunction on a Dual Hawk that I should have caught during a gear check several years ago. The continuous loop was through the middle and small ring. It created an impossible pull force. I actually broke the plastic clip that the ripcord clips to by pulling so hard. I am lucky that the reserve cleared the drogue. I sent the video and a report to Strong. As for being sued, you really have nothing to worry about. No one was hurt so there are no damages which is a required element to recover on a theory of negligence. I guess she could claim emotional distress but I don't see how she could possibly win. I cant imagine any attorney taking that case on a contingency basis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #29 September 5, 2010 Quote Well, like I said, she didn't realize we were under a reserve until she asked to steer and I had to tell her no because there are no toggles for the student on the reserve. You can actually share the reserve toggles. Put their hands in the loops the normal way, and you can grab the top of the toggle, with the steering line between your index and middle finger, and the top tab of the toggles pointing inwards. For anyone who used to jump hard toggles it's very natural. Passenger body position? I tell them in the briefing that it's very common for the knees to get too low on tandems. My signal to put the feet up and arch harder is to tap the front of the thighs. It's pretty effective. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Things like this happen and you did a great job handling the situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #30 September 5, 2010 " Quote Quote ... Passenger body position? I tell them in the briefing that it's very common for the knees to get too low on tandems. My signal to put the feet up and arch harder is to tap the front of the thighs. It's pretty effective. ... " ................................................................................. I just jam my heels into the tops of their knees ... and try to muscle their legs backwards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #31 September 5, 2010 Quote I just jam my heels into the tops of their knees ... and try to muscle their legs backwards. Enhances the realism of the experience, doesn't it? Hey, you forgot to mention that you smack them in the mouth to remind them to get their head back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #32 September 5, 2010 Quote " Quote Quote ... Passenger body position? I tell them in the briefing that it's very common for the knees to get too low on tandems. My signal to put the feet up and arch harder is to tap the front of the thighs. It's pretty effective. ... " ................................................................................. I just jam my heels into the tops of their knees ... and try to muscle their legs backwards. But doesn't that require you to break your own body position? I've done the leg wrap thing, but prefer the "lower impact" option to start with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #33 September 6, 2010 Ive been packing since my 8th jump but now a year later Im finally packing tandems full time for my DZ (as of yesterday) and your first hand experience makes me even more cautious when closing the container and assembling the drogue release. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnnyringo 0 #34 September 6, 2010 I AGREE YOU GOTTA DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR BODY POSITION. ONE THING YOU CAN ALSO DO TO HELP YOURSELF OUT IS "JUMP A SIGMA" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dust-It 0 #35 September 6, 2010 Packers are your first line of defence,they see the gear every time they pack and should understand how responsible they are . I ouned a tandem rig and made 450 tandem jumps.Stoped doing them do to neck problems and now pack them for others. Would never want to put any of my tandem guys or girls in un needed danger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #36 September 6, 2010 Quote Quote I just jam my heels into the tops of their knees ... and try to muscle their legs backwards. Enhances the realism of the experience, doesn't it? Hey, you forgot to mention that you smack them in the mouth to remind them to get their head back. ..................................................................................... I gave up on punching or slapping students years ago. The problem - with beating on truly stupid/scared people - is that the only thing that changes is that your hand gets tired. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tandemwench 0 #37 September 7, 2010 Quote Quote Quote I just jam my heels into the tops of their knees ... and try to muscle their legs backwards. Enhances the realism of the experience, doesn't it? Hey, you forgot to mention that you smack them in the mouth to remind them to get their head back. ..................................................................................... I gave up on punching or slapping students years ago. The problem - with beating on truly stupid/scared people - is that the only thing that changes is that your hand gets tired. Heck - I just do a reach around on them.....certainly reminds them to do something at least!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #38 September 8, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote I just jam my heels into the tops of their knees ... and try to muscle their legs backwards. Enhances the realism of the experience, doesn't it? Hey, you forgot to mention that you smack them in the mouth to remind them to get their head back. ..................................................................................... I gave up on punching or slapping students years ago. The problem - with beating on truly stupid/scared people - is that the only thing that changes is that your hand gets tired. Heck - I just do a reach around on them.....certainly reminds them to do something at least!! .................................................................................. Which raises one of the great ethical debates of our time. Which is better: tickle their "wedding tackle" to a void a quick, dishonorable death (unstable opening) ... or risk the years of misery inflicted my lawyers who allege that you sexually harrassed a client????? Hah! Hah! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tandemwench 0 #39 September 8, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I just jam my heels into the tops of their knees ... and try to muscle their legs backwards. Enhances the realism of the experience, doesn't it? Hey, you forgot to mention that you smack them in the mouth to remind them to get their head back. ..................................................................................... I gave up on punching or slapping students years ago. The problem - with beating on truly stupid/scared people - is that the only thing that changes is that your hand gets tired. Heck - I just do a reach around on them.....certainly reminds them to do something at least!! .................................................................................. Which raises one of the great ethical debates of our time. Which is better: tickle their "wedding tackle" to a void a quick, dishonorable death (unstable opening) ... or risk the years of misery inflicted my lawyers who allege that you sexually harrassed a client????? Hah! Hah! such a very thin fine line...... which side to dance on..... :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rover 11 #40 September 9, 2010 I jump Vector style gear and I tried - without success - to replicate the scenerio on the ground. One thing I did notice on my gear is that the '2nd' ring appears noticably smaller in comparison to the '1st' ring, compared to the rings in the photo. Could the ring sizes be changed to reduce the risk of this happening again?2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jvtandem 0 #41 September 11, 2010 As a Tandem Instructor, a 2.5 second check of your gear would have avoided this situation. I know that you were really pumped and really wanted everyone to see how great you are for such a great and complete report - but did you tell Strong that you are a DA for not doing a gear check? continue to jump but be prudent - Open mouth insert foot is a common problem. Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VTmotoMike08 0 #42 September 12, 2010 I'm not really sure what your point is. Yes, I know I was a dumb ass and a quick check could have prevented it. It seems that you are hinting I should have kept it hidden from Strong Enterprises for fear of punishment. Apologies if I'm reading into your post wrong, but I disagree. When I became a TI, I signed a written "Tandem Instructor Code of Ethics" agreement and part of that is to fill out and submit the form every time there is a reserve activation or injury. My word means something to me, so I kept up my end of the agreement. As for posting it on the internet, I don't regret that either. No one person will live long enough to make all the mistakes themselves so I posted it here just as a reminder of what can happen. It seems that several other people have gotten the point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #43 September 12, 2010 Some tandem rigs are manufactured with large (RW-0) rings sewn to the bottom end of the drogue bridle, while mini rings (RW-3 and RW-4) are sewn to the drogue riser. This reduces the risk the drogue riser jamming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #44 September 12, 2010 Lighten up! Try looking at the bigger picture. The whole point of submitting AIM reports ... is to help others learn from your mistakes, but without the scar tissue. Sometimes we need to see three or four "close calls" before we figure out what is causing a problem. Sometimes a series of Incident reports allow us to identify a problem before it kills anyone. Rob Warner Strong Tandem Examiner CSPA Rigger Examiner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #45 September 12, 2010 Thanks for posting your story and report, it's indeed a good reminder.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irishrigger 32 #46 September 21, 2010 i take my hat of to you for posting this,as bill m said,not many people would put there hands up to this one! i think it is an excellent reminder to all tandem masters out there,that maybe a 2.5 sec gear check is not enough! i also think some tandem masters are very complacent and trust there packers to much! i recently did a spot check on our tandem masters,i asked a tandem master to inspect his gear and the answer i got was that it was up to the packer to make sure he packed it correctly.needless to say that did not go down well,and that person was read the riot act,and retrained again! so what i have implemented over here is a 3 month check for gear and malfunction procedures. i put numerous gear gigs on a tandem and ask each tandem master to inspect the gear and make it ready for jumping,these gear gigs are what happend in real life. lets just say it was an eye opener for a lot of tandem masters.by the way we use sigma's here. i think every dz and tandem examiner should do this.it might sharpen people up,and hopefully the mistake will be spotted on the ground and not in the air.as one can imagine a lot of fatalitys could have been prevented by a proper gear check on the ground. so lets all use this as a great learning incident,so that this does not happen again. and by the way good job in dealing with it.glad your still with uscherrio rodger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmills0705 0 #47 September 21, 2010 As a newly rated Strong Tandem Instructor post like these are invaluable to those of us just entering the ranks. Thanks again and kudos for sharing. KimKim Mills USPA D21696 Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 21 #48 September 22, 2010 QuoteAs for posting it on the internet, I don't regret that either. No one person will live long enough to make all the mistakes themselves so I posted it here just as a reminder of what can happen. Good for you, Mike. Tell "jvtandem" to go away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZGREG 0 #49 September 26, 2010 there is only one solution my friend ...... its called a gear check and the responsibility for conducting is yours ... Cheers . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abedy 0 #50 September 27, 2010 Quote there is only one solution my friend ...... its called a gear check and the responsibility for conducting is yours ... Cheers . It's "smart" answers like this one that prevent fellow skydivers from posting articles about mistakes they made for the sole but noble purpose to help other to avoid these mistakes. Therefore, thanks but no thanks for this post of yours. But many thanks to Mike. It takes a lot of braveness to stand up and admit to having made a mistake in public. We talked about the problem at our DZ. It might - I dunno - have led others to check their 3-rings even more carefully (or with a new perspective); I also picked up the "also TOUCH the things you check" tip. One is never too old to learn sth useful The sky is not the limit. The ground is. The Society of Skydiving Ducks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
