liftedtitan 0 #1 September 16, 2010 I came accross this and wondered if this is common practice for TI's. A few line twists=cutaway? then to say "oh fuck here goes" before cutaway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q51XBsg-ce0Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #2 September 16, 2010 If you can't get out of the twists, it fails a control check. It's undetermined how much altitude he had remaining prior to cutaway and he determined he was not able to get out of the twists. Maybe he could have but maybe not. People say whatever they say during a cutaway. He put the guy in an arch, arms out of the way and performed the cutaway. As far as that part is concerned, he did just fine.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #3 September 16, 2010 Agreed. Those linetwists were not coming out, plus the harddeck of a tandem is much higher than that of a sport skydiver, so bye-bye canopy. And I've been known to swear before/after cutaways too ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #4 September 16, 2010 The only problem I have with it, is that if he'd stop worrying about the shot, he likely could have untwisted it. Hate to see a good 'chute go to waste (so to speak). I believe in my reserve and my rigger, but if using two hands (safely) keep me from needing that last chance... I'll sacrifice the shot. JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liftedtitan 0 #5 September 16, 2010 QuoteAgreed. Those linetwists were not coming out, is this because of the difficulty of kicking? it just seems like 2.5-3 twists, kinda standard for sport rigs sometimes.Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #6 September 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteAgreed. Those linetwists were not coming out, is this because of the difficulty of kicking? it just seems like 2.5-3 twists, kinda standard for sport rigs sometimes. On student gear, usually linetwist are a non-issue. But on a lot of sports rigs, a few linetwists can cause you to have to cutaway: if the canopy is diving and/or the linetwists are uneven, they may not go out that easily. The smaller a canopy is and the more high performance it is, the more chance you have of problems like that (which can mostly be prevented by body position and packing). ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #7 September 16, 2010 Agreed... but this looked like straight/level docile... And while I'm not the one there, and he did execute the chop well... I'd still like to see the left hand doing something other than filming it... JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #8 September 16, 2010 Quote I'd still like to see the left hand doing something other than filming it... He was framing rather well, wasnt't he? ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #9 September 16, 2010 Quote Quote I'd still like to see the left hand doing something other than filming it... He was framing rather well, wasnt't he? Absolutely, and as a Monday morning TI, it made it much easier to criticize his actions .JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #10 September 16, 2010 I have a few comments. One, if that's all the time he had to work with it he must have deployed toward the lower end. Two, I've seen this exact same thing when loaded heavy under an Icarus tandem (he has an "Icarus Canopies" patch on his shoulder), you're in full flight and your knees will wind vain you. You'll notice that they keep settling into a reward (relative to the canopy) facing position. Get the knees out of the breeze, ie stand up, and it'll untwist it's self all by it's self. Or, you can stick an arm and/or leg out as appropriate to help it untwist. I had a similar situation where my drogue had a half hitch in the bridle collapsing the drogue. I deployed at about 8k, and we must have had 8 to 10 twists. I wore my ass out trying to get it to untwist, we were heavy in excess of 475 lbs, so a good forward speed. I finally relaxed a bit and was about to resign myself to chopping it, then seriously thought 'I read about this on dz.com, we're wind vaning.' I asked my student to "stand up", I did the same and from there simply relaxed while it untwisted it's self. I have in the range of 2500 tandems under Icarus canopies, and have never needed to release a canopy due to line twists. I do deploy around 5,500' so have a bit of time to deal when rarely I need to. I'd also ding him for being a vidiot primarily and TI second. There comes a time when you need to forget about the camera and do job number one.Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheCaptain 2 #11 September 16, 2010 line twist on tandem canopies that open full flight can be very difficult to get out of. I know of three methods to get out. 1. Bring the line twist down to the risers by using both hands and twisting the riser. Once down in the risers it will generally untwist it self. 2. Be careful on this if possible pulling the correct toggle can untwist the canopy, but pulling the incorrect one will definetly make things worse. Generally, I start by just appling a little with one to see if it is the right one. 3. kick out, and if necessary have the student kick too. I have used all methods and had them work well at times and had the first two not work but kicking with the student help kick finally got out of the line twist on one.Kirk He's dead Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #12 September 16, 2010 I agree with you. I will not monday quarterback the TI, he did his job and landed a good parachute. That being said what the hell is he trying to get out of line twists with one hand? Who cares about the video. I didnt see the left hand help out at all. using both hands to twist the risers could have gotten that thing spinning inthe correct direction. When I have line twists like that youbetter believe I am using two hands, two legs, and anything else I can to get is untwisted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #13 September 17, 2010 QuoteThere comes a time when you need to forget about the camera and do job number one. Yup, people should really be a TI and simply leave the camera to the outside flier. Then again, I've been saying that for 5 years and everyone has simply laughed. Its only a matter of time before we have a double fatal due to a handicam.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downtoearth 0 #14 September 17, 2010 I was wondering why the hell he didnt have both hands on the risers trying to get it out? Looks like he was more focused on getting it in film. IDK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SickMonkey 0 #15 September 17, 2010 someone told me once to push the risers together at the three rings.......has worked for me with lots of twists...pretty easy to do and takes the tension out of the line twists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,296 #16 September 17, 2010 QuoteThen again, I've been saying that for 5 years and everyone has simply laughed. Not everyone, Dave.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #17 September 17, 2010 Its only a matter of time before we have a double fatal due to a handicam. Yeah but there WILL be video! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rover 11 #18 September 17, 2010 Quote Quote There comes a time when you need to forget about the camera and do job number one. Yup, people should really be a TI and simply leave the camera to the outside flier. Then again, I've been saying that for 5 years and everyone has simply laughed. Its only a matter of time before we have a double fatal due to a handicam. You could ban tandems, that'll stop it. 2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #19 September 17, 2010 Quote Quote Quote There comes a time when you need to forget about the camera and do job number one. Yup, people should really be a TI and simply leave the camera to the outside flier. Then again, I've been saying that for 5 years and everyone has simply laughed. Its only a matter of time before we have a double fatal due to a handicam. You could ban tandems, that'll stop it. Yup! That'd solve many problems.... but, we'd be back to jumpen 1-ways outta Piper Cubs again.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aerialcameraman 0 #20 September 22, 2010 Well here us an idea. Get your other hand up there to help get them out. Maybe not worry so much on a cool shot and do ur job. Leave cameras to the camera man Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #21 September 23, 2010 QuoteWell here us an idea. Get your other hand up there to help get them out. Maybe not worry so much on a cool shot and do ur job. Leave cameras to the camera man I agree with everything right up to the last sentence. Hand cam is here to stay, learn to live with it. A guy who's been skydiving since the late 60s told me that when people started jumping ram air parachutes, the mantra was "it's a fad", and "you guys are going to kill yourself's with those things."Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halfpastniner 0 #22 September 23, 2010 Quote Quote Well here us an idea. Get your other hand up there to help get them out. Maybe not worry so much on a cool shot and do ur job. Leave cameras to the camera man I agree with everything right up to the last sentence. Hand cam is here to stay, learn to live with it. A guy who's been skydiving since the late 60s told me that when people started jumping ram air parachutes, the mantra was "it's a fad", and "you guys are going to kill yourself's with those things." Well that last part is trueBASE 1384 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #23 September 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteWell here us an idea. Get your other hand up there to help get them out. Maybe not worry so much on a cool shot and do ur job. Leave cameras to the camera man I agree with everything right up to the last sentence. Hand cam is here to stay, learn to live with it. A guy who's been skydiving since the late 60s told me that when people started jumping ram air parachutes, the mantra was "it's a fad", and "you guys are going to kill yourself's with those things." Hell! We were laughing our asses off when they started testing TANDEM skydives.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheCaptain 2 #24 September 23, 2010 It is real simple after opening turn the camera off, deal with the line twist. Then turn the camera back on, I have done this several times myself.Kirk He's dead Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #25 September 24, 2010 Quote"you guys are going to kill yourself's with those things." Well, he kinda had a point about that part.-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
