matt3sa 0 #1 January 16, 2012 I'm curious as to what are the most common tandem mals. I've got 1400 + jumps and I had my first mal at jump 1331. It was a right side tension knot on a sigma 370 with the larger sized lines. I've heard that that is a very common mal for the sigma's. Just out of curiosity please state your tandem jump numbers, tandem mals, and gear type with information regarding your equipment. Much appreciated. Thanks. Apologize if I missed a previous post on this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 January 16, 2012 QuoteI'm curious as to what are the most common tandem mals. I've got 1400 + jumps and I had my first mal at jump 1331. It was a right side tension knot on a sigma 370 with the larger sized lines. I've heard that that is a very common mal for the sigma's. Just out of curiosity please state your tandem jump numbers, tandem mals, and gear type with information regarding your equipment. Much appreciated. Thanks. Apologize if I missed a previous post on this. On the Sigma mains if you or your packers aren't untwisting the main control lines the cascade twists and flattens out. If the lineset is older it already gets a little "grabby." Now add the popped out cascade and it wants to grab the C/D cascades in front of it on opening. 3 of the 4 tandem rides I've had with a tandem were due to this. The fourth was a lineover on an EZ-384 with a 6-grommet slider. I doubt you'll get too many of those setups anymore. It was impressive though since the lineover cleared its self fairly quickly, but it cleared the wrong way and I had a control line going around the canopy.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abedy 0 #3 January 16, 2012 Lineover with an EZ 384. Opening was a slammer, started spiraling instantly. Couldn't clear it, kissed it good-bye. Student didn't even notice. The sky is not the limit. The ground is. The Society of Skydiving Ducks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #4 January 16, 2012 1. Mis-routed bridle Strong dual Hawk. 2. Line over Set 400. 3. Line over EZ 384. 4. Tension knot Set 400. 5. Excessive snivel Set 400. 6. Tension knot Set 366. 7. Tension knot Set 366. 2500-3000 tandem jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhays 86 #5 January 16, 2012 1. Drogue-in-tow, Strong Dual Hawk. The flex pin broke off the bridle 2. Two broken A lines, Icarus 330 3. Tension knots, Icarus 330 4. Tension knots, I-330 5. The "cutaway of shame"...line twists I-330. Had about seven of them and was heading out to sea with a strong uppers. 6. ???? Can't remember one of them. Sucks getting old. 4500-5000 tandems.“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #6 January 17, 2012 During 4,000 tandems, I have suffered about 20 reserve rides. Most of them were cutaways from torn, first-generation Strong 425 and 520 canopies. Several of those holes were big enough to drive buses through! Several were cutaways from broken (Dacron) suspension lines and a few more were from tension knots (all types of suspension lines). Two were terminal reserve openings, after forgetting to toss the drogue. I was riding on the front (as an Examiner) during one of those hard openings! I have only suffered one collapsed (never inflated)drogue (due an experimental packing method), but pulled a drogue release cable high and found myself under canopy by 5,000 feet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firemedic 7 #7 January 17, 2012 550 Tandems total. All mals on a Sigma H/C System 1 on a Sigma 370-Tension Knot (Dacron) 3 on Precision 365s-All were tension knots (Vectran) Edit: I was originally equating malfunction with cutaway. I had one mal where the rear lines tangled together and caught in the slider about 3/4 the way down. I was able to clear it by alternately yanking on the left and right rears. Took maybe 20 seconds and it all came free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpectreDriver 0 #8 January 18, 2012 More more more!! Keep this thread going for us newbies! There simply aren't enough examples in the Vector manuals. I just started this summer and have had only one mal: split topskin on #1 Cell of an Aerodyne 389. Each practice flare resulted in further folding-under of the left side, so it became a no-brainer. Student: "Something doesn't look right, huh?" Me: "Yep. Might have to get rid of it." Student: "Cool, Let's do it." Me: "Ok... get ready to go back into freefall." Student: "I just told you I'm ready!!" Once under the Reserve I'm wondering if I need to clean out my drawers while student's saying "You did good, man. Great job!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #9 January 18, 2012 Has anyone heard or seen main out with no drogue out of sequence with sigma system????Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joelofland 0 #10 January 19, 2012 Zero cutaways so far. 800+ tandems all on Sigma with precision 365s. Cleared plenty of line twists and a tension knot. Out of 2,700+ total jumps only one chop and it was a toggle fire on a xfire119. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #11 January 20, 2012 I do not feel like writting a novel so I will just enjoy reading about everyone else on this one.Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TheCaptain 2 #12 January 20, 2012 2325 Tandems 3 cutaways 1) Strong dual hawk with Set 400 -- tension knots 2) Sigma, Precision Tandem 365--- bag lock ***just a word of caution in a high speed malfunction on Sigma rigs the preclasped drogue may not be enough drag to release the risers, you may want to make sure they are released from the container before firing the reserve *** 3) Sigma, Precisiion Tandem 365 -- the drogue bridle wrapped around some of the D lines(I believe the chimney got caught at the cascades as I only got a second to look at it before we were off to the races, and I have no idea how this could actually happen other than another issue with preclasping the drogue possibly) on the right side causing a hard right hand turn. 3335 total jumps one cut away on VX109 with wingsuit, opened up to line twist and started spinng to the ground. Found out later my brake lines had worn and there was a 2” difference one side to the other from brake setting to cascadeKirk He's dead Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #13 January 20, 2012 QuoteHas anyone heard or seen main out with no drogue out of sequence with sigma system???? With 2000+ Sigma jumps and 10+ years working with them, I have not see that mal with a Sigma. I am hard pressed to see how it could happen. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyshimas 0 #14 January 20, 2012 ~2000 tandems 4mals. 1-line over ez384. 2-top skin split ez384 3-last stow didn't release on a full line stretch this one was high speed. icarus365 4-line twist that locked and couldn't steer out of it on icarus365. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rstanley0312 1 #15 January 20, 2012 QuoteMore more more!! Keep this thread going for us newbies! There simply aren't enough examples in the Vector manuals. I just started this summer and have had only one mal: split topskin on #1 Cell of an Aerodyne 389. Each practice flare resulted in further folding-under of the left side, so it became a no-brainer. Student: "Something doesn't look right, huh?" Me: "Yep. Might have to get rid of it." Student: "Cool, Let's do it." Me: "Ok... get ready to go back into freefall." Student: "I just told you I'm ready!!" Once under the Reserve I'm wondering if I need to clean out my drawers while student's saying "You did good, man. Great job!" AwesomeLife is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #16 January 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteHas anyone heard or seen main out with no drogue out of sequence with sigma system???? With 2000+ Sigma jumps and 10+ years working with them, I have not see that mal with a Sigma. I am hard pressed to see how it could happen. Matt The only way I can see it happening is with line bites being way too long and looping over another line bite, locking them in place.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #17 January 21, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteHas anyone heard or seen main out with no drogue out of sequence with sigma system???? With 2000+ Sigma jumps and 10+ years working with them, I have not see that mal with a Sigma. I am hard pressed to see how it could happen. Matt The only way I can see it happening is with line bites being way too long and looping over another line bite, locking them in place. I thought he was describing the old container open drogue in tow type mal. If that was what he meant, I do not see how that happens on a Sigma, any system with a riser, Vector II Tandem etc, sure we all have that briefing and maybe experienced it. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #18 January 22, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHas anyone heard or seen main out with no drogue out of sequence with sigma system???? With 2000+ Sigma jumps and 10+ years working with them, I have not see that mal with a Sigma. I am hard pressed to see how it could happen. Matt The only way I can see it happening is with line bites being way too long and looping over another line bite, locking them in place. I thought he was describing the old container open drogue in tow type mal. If that was what he meant, I do not see how that happens on a Sigma, any system with a riser, Vector II Tandem etc, sure we all have that briefing and maybe experienced it. Matt Oh. You're probably right in what he was describing (re-read it and see it that way). And yes, I agree, I don't see how it could possibly happen on a properly maintained Sigma system.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VTmotoMike08 0 #19 January 23, 2012 #1: Drogue in tow. Thread with pics is around here somewhere. #2: Minding my own business, throw the drogue, look over my shoulder and see a bunch of riser and a few feet of line trailing behind me but not entangled on anything. Pulled high since I knew it was gonna be messy. Got line twists all the way up to the top on the SET-400 and couldn't get out by decision time, so I chopped it for an otherwise uneventful reserve ride. Never did find out how the riser got out, but strong daul hawks are not know for riser security even when well maintained. Only 200 tandems Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydived19006 4 #20 January 25, 2012 3000 tandems, all on Icarus 330 and 365 canopies. One malfunction on a 330, the two center A/B lines broke below the cascade point. I couldn't see what was going on with the slider above my head. It would fly in deep breaks, but let the toggles up and the front corners would come together. I've twice had a drogue bridle get a hitch, and grab the edge of the drogue. In both instances I could tell we were getting no drag from the drogue, so deployed around 8,000' with a very slow opening. On one you could see in the hand cam vid that the bag came up and almost bumped me on the head. After thinking about it, and analyzing the situation, I came to the conclusion that both were a result of tossing the drogue into the burble, either somewhat on our side, lazy drogue throw, or combination of both. One I half blame on the pilot. I know your immediate reaction is 'how could the pilot be to blame'. We were working around clouds, I advised that the spot wasn't really critical, just get me in the neighborhood. He had me so close to a cloud that half way over in the flip I was in white, no horizon, and apparently was left side low when I tossed. I obviously could have asked for corrections, and learned a lesson that day!Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freekflyguy 0 #21 January 26, 2012 Quote 3000 tandems, all on Icarus 330 and 365 canopies. One malfunction on a 330, the two center A/B lines broke below the cascade point. I couldn't see what was going on with the slider above my head. It would fly in deep breaks, but let the toggles up and the front corners would come together. I've twice had a drogue bridle get a hitch, and grab the edge of the drogue. In both instances I could tell we were getting no drag from the drogue, so deployed around 8,000' with a very slow opening. On one you could see in the hand cam vid that the bag came up and almost bumped me on the head. After thinking about it, and analyzing the situation, I came to the conclusion that both were a result of tossing the drogue into the burble, either somewhat on our side, lazy drogue throw, or combination of both. One I half blame on the pilot. I know your immediate reaction is 'how could the pilot be to blame'. We were working around clouds, I advised that the spot wasn't really critical, just get me in the neighborhood. He had me so close to a cloud that half way over in the flip I was in white, no horizon, and apparently was left side low when I tossed. I obviously could have asked for corrections, and learned a lesson that day! 3000 tandems and still blaming someone else for your mistakes, shame on you It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AdD 1 #22 January 26, 2012 2500 Tandems - 4 chops #1 Multiple line twists with fat passenger #2 Lineover #3 Streamer #4 Lineover with tension knots A few things I learned are that large passengers impair your ability to kick out of linetwists. It may have been possible to clear that one by releasing and pulling the correct steering toggle but there were a lot of twists and I didn't know that trick at the time. #3 was also peculiar becuase the canopy was wet from the dew on the grass on the second jump of the morning and although it came out of the bag it stayed in 'sausage' form and began to twist. Wish I could post the shots as I fell past the video guy.Life is ez On the dz Every jumper's dream 3 rigs and an airstream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydived19006 4 #23 January 26, 2012 Quote 3000 tandems and still blaming someone else for your mistakes, shame on you Well, obviously I tell that story with the appropriate level of sarcastic humor. Isaiah McCauliffe was at the DZ when he was with PD for a boogie a few years back. My buddy Mark asked him for stories from his travels, demoing canopies, etc. Isaiah told us, among other things, that a guy once accused him of packing a bad landing. Apparently the guy was 100% serious! I'd guess that guy has killed himself by now, if not skydiving then something else, hopefully there was good video!Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydived19006 4 #24 January 26, 2012 Quote A few things I learned are that large passengers impair your ability to kick out of linetwists. It may have been possible to clear that one by releasing and pulling the correct steering toggle but there were a lot of twists and I didn't know that trick at the time. If you're flying canopies that are packed with no break settings, then you're open in line twists in full flight. Especially with heavy students, the speed will cause you to "wind vain". If everybody "stands up" you'll eliminate the wind vane affect, also you can stick an arm/leg out to drag you around and out of twists, alternating arm/legs as you go round. Really though, simply eliminating the wind vane problem will get you untwisting nicely with no other input.Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aarco 0 #25 February 16, 2012 I have no idea how many tandems I have - I sware - about 50 chops on 330s always high stuff - missing slider - a few from heavy use - blew up - never cut away a line twist - it just sucks to talkabout - its like the AD on the range back at Bragg... Having something never beats doing (>|<) Iam building things - Iam working on my mind- I am going to change this world - its what I came here 4- - - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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TheCaptain 2 #12 January 20, 2012 2325 Tandems 3 cutaways 1) Strong dual hawk with Set 400 -- tension knots 2) Sigma, Precision Tandem 365--- bag lock ***just a word of caution in a high speed malfunction on Sigma rigs the preclasped drogue may not be enough drag to release the risers, you may want to make sure they are released from the container before firing the reserve *** 3) Sigma, Precisiion Tandem 365 -- the drogue bridle wrapped around some of the D lines(I believe the chimney got caught at the cascades as I only got a second to look at it before we were off to the races, and I have no idea how this could actually happen other than another issue with preclasping the drogue possibly) on the right side causing a hard right hand turn. 3335 total jumps one cut away on VX109 with wingsuit, opened up to line twist and started spinng to the ground. Found out later my brake lines had worn and there was a 2” difference one side to the other from brake setting to cascadeKirk He's dead Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #13 January 20, 2012 QuoteHas anyone heard or seen main out with no drogue out of sequence with sigma system???? With 2000+ Sigma jumps and 10+ years working with them, I have not see that mal with a Sigma. I am hard pressed to see how it could happen. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyshimas 0 #14 January 20, 2012 ~2000 tandems 4mals. 1-line over ez384. 2-top skin split ez384 3-last stow didn't release on a full line stretch this one was high speed. icarus365 4-line twist that locked and couldn't steer out of it on icarus365. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #15 January 20, 2012 QuoteMore more more!! Keep this thread going for us newbies! There simply aren't enough examples in the Vector manuals. I just started this summer and have had only one mal: split topskin on #1 Cell of an Aerodyne 389. Each practice flare resulted in further folding-under of the left side, so it became a no-brainer. Student: "Something doesn't look right, huh?" Me: "Yep. Might have to get rid of it." Student: "Cool, Let's do it." Me: "Ok... get ready to go back into freefall." Student: "I just told you I'm ready!!" Once under the Reserve I'm wondering if I need to clean out my drawers while student's saying "You did good, man. Great job!" AwesomeLife is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #16 January 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteHas anyone heard or seen main out with no drogue out of sequence with sigma system???? With 2000+ Sigma jumps and 10+ years working with them, I have not see that mal with a Sigma. I am hard pressed to see how it could happen. Matt The only way I can see it happening is with line bites being way too long and looping over another line bite, locking them in place.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #17 January 21, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteHas anyone heard or seen main out with no drogue out of sequence with sigma system???? With 2000+ Sigma jumps and 10+ years working with them, I have not see that mal with a Sigma. I am hard pressed to see how it could happen. Matt The only way I can see it happening is with line bites being way too long and looping over another line bite, locking them in place. I thought he was describing the old container open drogue in tow type mal. If that was what he meant, I do not see how that happens on a Sigma, any system with a riser, Vector II Tandem etc, sure we all have that briefing and maybe experienced it. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #18 January 22, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHas anyone heard or seen main out with no drogue out of sequence with sigma system???? With 2000+ Sigma jumps and 10+ years working with them, I have not see that mal with a Sigma. I am hard pressed to see how it could happen. Matt The only way I can see it happening is with line bites being way too long and looping over another line bite, locking them in place. I thought he was describing the old container open drogue in tow type mal. If that was what he meant, I do not see how that happens on a Sigma, any system with a riser, Vector II Tandem etc, sure we all have that briefing and maybe experienced it. Matt Oh. You're probably right in what he was describing (re-read it and see it that way). And yes, I agree, I don't see how it could possibly happen on a properly maintained Sigma system.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VTmotoMike08 0 #19 January 23, 2012 #1: Drogue in tow. Thread with pics is around here somewhere. #2: Minding my own business, throw the drogue, look over my shoulder and see a bunch of riser and a few feet of line trailing behind me but not entangled on anything. Pulled high since I knew it was gonna be messy. Got line twists all the way up to the top on the SET-400 and couldn't get out by decision time, so I chopped it for an otherwise uneventful reserve ride. Never did find out how the riser got out, but strong daul hawks are not know for riser security even when well maintained. Only 200 tandems Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #20 January 25, 2012 3000 tandems, all on Icarus 330 and 365 canopies. One malfunction on a 330, the two center A/B lines broke below the cascade point. I couldn't see what was going on with the slider above my head. It would fly in deep breaks, but let the toggles up and the front corners would come together. I've twice had a drogue bridle get a hitch, and grab the edge of the drogue. In both instances I could tell we were getting no drag from the drogue, so deployed around 8,000' with a very slow opening. On one you could see in the hand cam vid that the bag came up and almost bumped me on the head. After thinking about it, and analyzing the situation, I came to the conclusion that both were a result of tossing the drogue into the burble, either somewhat on our side, lazy drogue throw, or combination of both. One I half blame on the pilot. I know your immediate reaction is 'how could the pilot be to blame'. We were working around clouds, I advised that the spot wasn't really critical, just get me in the neighborhood. He had me so close to a cloud that half way over in the flip I was in white, no horizon, and apparently was left side low when I tossed. I obviously could have asked for corrections, and learned a lesson that day!Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freekflyguy 0 #21 January 26, 2012 Quote 3000 tandems, all on Icarus 330 and 365 canopies. One malfunction on a 330, the two center A/B lines broke below the cascade point. I couldn't see what was going on with the slider above my head. It would fly in deep breaks, but let the toggles up and the front corners would come together. I've twice had a drogue bridle get a hitch, and grab the edge of the drogue. In both instances I could tell we were getting no drag from the drogue, so deployed around 8,000' with a very slow opening. On one you could see in the hand cam vid that the bag came up and almost bumped me on the head. After thinking about it, and analyzing the situation, I came to the conclusion that both were a result of tossing the drogue into the burble, either somewhat on our side, lazy drogue throw, or combination of both. One I half blame on the pilot. I know your immediate reaction is 'how could the pilot be to blame'. We were working around clouds, I advised that the spot wasn't really critical, just get me in the neighborhood. He had me so close to a cloud that half way over in the flip I was in white, no horizon, and apparently was left side low when I tossed. I obviously could have asked for corrections, and learned a lesson that day! 3000 tandems and still blaming someone else for your mistakes, shame on you It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdD 1 #22 January 26, 2012 2500 Tandems - 4 chops #1 Multiple line twists with fat passenger #2 Lineover #3 Streamer #4 Lineover with tension knots A few things I learned are that large passengers impair your ability to kick out of linetwists. It may have been possible to clear that one by releasing and pulling the correct steering toggle but there were a lot of twists and I didn't know that trick at the time. #3 was also peculiar becuase the canopy was wet from the dew on the grass on the second jump of the morning and although it came out of the bag it stayed in 'sausage' form and began to twist. Wish I could post the shots as I fell past the video guy.Life is ez On the dz Every jumper's dream 3 rigs and an airstream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #23 January 26, 2012 Quote 3000 tandems and still blaming someone else for your mistakes, shame on you Well, obviously I tell that story with the appropriate level of sarcastic humor. Isaiah McCauliffe was at the DZ when he was with PD for a boogie a few years back. My buddy Mark asked him for stories from his travels, demoing canopies, etc. Isaiah told us, among other things, that a guy once accused him of packing a bad landing. Apparently the guy was 100% serious! I'd guess that guy has killed himself by now, if not skydiving then something else, hopefully there was good video!Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #24 January 26, 2012 Quote A few things I learned are that large passengers impair your ability to kick out of linetwists. It may have been possible to clear that one by releasing and pulling the correct steering toggle but there were a lot of twists and I didn't know that trick at the time. If you're flying canopies that are packed with no break settings, then you're open in line twists in full flight. Especially with heavy students, the speed will cause you to "wind vain". If everybody "stands up" you'll eliminate the wind vane affect, also you can stick an arm/leg out to drag you around and out of twists, alternating arm/legs as you go round. Really though, simply eliminating the wind vane problem will get you untwisting nicely with no other input.Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aarco 0 #25 February 16, 2012 I have no idea how many tandems I have - I sware - about 50 chops on 330s always high stuff - missing slider - a few from heavy use - blew up - never cut away a line twist - it just sucks to talkabout - its like the AD on the range back at Bragg... Having something never beats doing (>|<) Iam building things - Iam working on my mind- I am going to change this world - its what I came here 4- - - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
