SIGMA rig: premature container opening questions

[skydiverek 63]

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I think the Sigma rig is a really great rig and better than the Dual Hawk or Vector 2, but it still has it's own set of issues IMHO. Precalapsing the drogue in a bag lock situation there may not be enough drag to release the risers after a cutaway. Also the line used for release the main that is attached to the blue and orange golf ball shrinks, and over time will shrink enough to allow canopy deployment without pulling the handles (yes this is a wear item that needs to be monitored).
All that said I still like them better than the others IMHO

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4155226;search_string=sigma;#4155226

That, plus the RSL safety pin with lots of velcro... In the accident above, it was removed (unauthorized operation), and Sigma still had issues...

[theonlyski 8]

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I want to learn more about the Precision tandem rig... stays closed even if the loop is snapped and the reserve clears the dorgue apparently

2c from a kid half way through the Sigma course...

That's because they put a hesitator loop on the main as well. If the closing loop snaps, the hesitator should keep the main in the container if the drogue isn't set.

But, that's if the packers use them, I can see them breaking a bunch and packers just not replacing them.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[feuergnom 29]

not directed at you, just as a general sum up

so there is a system that - in the hypothetical situation of the closing loop breaking - leave with a potential horseshoe. did any such incident ever happen and was it documented in any way? no one has anwered this question so far

then there is a system that uses a dual closing loop and another with a hesitator loop on the main, both preventing the initial questioned situation.

as i am not familiar with the tandem racer, can anyone answer how they solve this scenario?

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[Deci 0]

For the record, the Racer Tandem system also has 2 pins to open the main (one releases at drogue toss, and the other at drogue release). So the Sigma is not the only system that prevents premature main openings (or out of sequence main deployment). You can't get the main out unless you've tossed the drogue first. No drogue = No main.

CSPA D-1046 TI Coach2 RiggerA JM SSI SSE GCI EJR Canadian 102-way record holder
bard.ca

[Deyan 36]

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I don't get why people buy any other tandem rig brand new.

Some reasons without thinking too much

1. Some people don't like Sigma main
2. Some people don't like the Skyhook
3. Some people prefer different location of the drogue att. point.
4. Some people don't like the idea of shipping the spare parts overseas especially when they need them for yesterday.
5. Some people want a tandem rig that will go way over 1000 jumps without major repairs ( this is subjective because some tandem masters will find the way to ruin the gear even if it's made of steal and concrete, but in general tandems like NEXT and Atom will last longer than the Sigma.......I'm talking from personal experience here )
6. Some people prefer a pop top or semi pop top design.

There's gear out there for every taste and preference. Saying that this or that is "the best" or "the safest" gear is just a bit overreacting.

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[Liemberg 0]

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But, that's if the packers use them, I can see them breaking a bunch and packers just not replacing them.

Spank your packers more often!
(and if that doesn't work - inspect the equipment prior to throwing yourself out of airplanes with it...)

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[ManagingPrime 0]

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I want to learn more about the Precision tandem rig... stays closed even if the loop is snapped and the reserve clears the dorgue apparently

2c from a kid half way through the Sigma course...

That's because they put a hesitator loop on the main as well. If the closing loop snaps, the hesitator should keep the main in the container if the drogue isn't set.

But, that's if the packers use them, I can see them breaking a bunch and packers just not replacing them.

I've seen the test jump pictures. The drogue is out.... I don't know sqwat about tandems...I'm assuming the main container is staying closed because of a three-ring configuration or a second loop. I would like to better understand this. See attached picture. Edit to add: Could it be the attachment location?

In regards to why someone would choose a rig over Sigma...I'm hearing price point.

[theonlyski 8]

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But, that's if the packers use them, I can see them breaking a bunch and packers just not replacing them.

Spank your packers more often!
(and if that doesn't work - inspect the equipment prior to throwing yourself out of airplanes with it...)

I pack my own Sigma for all my tandems.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[theonlyski 8]

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I've seen the test jump pictures. The drogue is out.... I don't know sqwat about tandems...I'm assuming the main container is staying closed because of a three-ring configuration or a second loop. I would like to better understand this. See attached picture. Edit to add: Could it be the attachment location?

I've had the rig in my hands, though I'm not sure they would like me to post any pictures of it.

The container is held closed by a flex pin (kinda like on the SDH) and a safety stow of drogue. The drogue is attached via a 3 ring (basically in the same location as a SDH)

There are things that IMO aren't going to put it above the containers on the market, but only time will tell. I'm just a rookie TI/Rigger. What do I know?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[ManagingPrime 0]

Good call on the pic. While it was public domain, people do get funny sometimes.

Also just a rookie...not TI/Rigger. PM Headed your way.

[BASE841 3]

The safety stow does keep the container closed if the main closing loop breaks. I jump tested it myself about a month ago.

As for wear, it doesn't show much if any wear under normal conditions. I don't think packers will skip this important step, as it only adds seven seconds to my pack job.

One thing I noticed during the testing. If the closing loop breaks and the safety stow is used to keep the container closed, the bungee shows a little wear. I'm advising people to replace it then.

Let me know if you have any questions about the rig.

David

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

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No, it is other way around. You can't open main conteiner without throwing the drogue first,..

Absolutely, totally, dead wrong. If you reach back and grab a hand-full of bridle instead of drogue then that bridle will fully extend about two and a half feet behind you, release the safety pin which prevents that out-of-sequence deployment, and then totally allow you to open your container (without the drogue out) when you start pulling golf balls.. Granted, you would have to be an idiot to not do a complete systems check after throwing your drogue and not sensing that "slowing down" feeling, but I can promise you as an instructor that I have seen this happen on a guy I was evaluating.

[jerolim 7]

I was told to look over my right shoulder to visualy check for drogue inflation, and this is what I always do.

Such practise should eliminate bridle pull followed by golf ball pull,...

Also during my TM training we did 1 jump when drouge was thrown on 3000 meters (jump was from 4000) to feel different speed when it is not inflated. It is hard not to notice that something is wrong no drogue scenario.

[theonlyski 8]

That's an odd one for sure... Did they not notice that it wasn't a plastic ball they grabbed??

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[jurgencamps 0]

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That's an odd one for sure... Did they not notice that it wasn't a plastic ball they grabbed??

It also do happen that student tandeminstructors forget to set the drogue and never or to late realise their mistake. (Hint, if you see the videoman in headdown in front of you, ...).

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

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That's an odd one for sure... Did they not notice that it wasn't a plastic ball they grabbed??

No, he did not. He grabbed what he thought was the drogue handle and threw it, then completed his system check,. He did not actually spot his drogue (obviously) on "check drogue", but continued with his system checks all the way to drogue release altitude at 5000 feet. That's when the fun began.

Chuck

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

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(Hint, if you see the videoman in headdown in front of you, ...).

Or your instructor is tackling you trying to set your drogue for you at 180 mph..