iFlyFast 0 #1 July 11, 2012 Hi all, quick question. Can anyone explain why some tandem pilots jump with a wrist mount camera and others use a third person to film the dive? Is there a requirement for a tandem pilot to be able to jump with camera? I do think a wrist mounted camera provides better video for the client. Specially since it allows the under canopy part to be included. And I think that part is really important, as it provides really nice footage, and I'm sure much better customer satisfaction. I think it also adds to the customer experience if he's allowed to play with the toggles. However, I see that sometimes some pilots don't let the customer pilot the canopy, not even for the camera shot. Is there a good reason for this? What do you do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arvoitus 1 #2 July 11, 2012 I was told that Strong Enterprises requires/recommends a minimum of 100 tandem skydives before using handcams. I don't know why some TI's won't let students control the canopy. I personally do let them fly the canopy. Maybe because they're worried that if you let them grab the toggles they might interfere with a proper flare and fuck it up at the end.Your rights end where my feelings begin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CornishChris 5 #3 July 11, 2012 The main reason for using wrist mounts is $$$$$$$$. Why put another person on the plane when you can charge about the same for video and get the TI to do it and screw the extra risk. Capitalism at it's best... CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #4 July 11, 2012 Meh, $$$$$ is the same reason for outside video, no different than handycam. Your a vidiot, not an oncologist, nothing more or less noble than handy cam, and the assertion to the contrary is getting stale. Vidiots have collided and killed tandem pairs, so your saftey argument is bullshit. And for every "incident" (with no fatality to date) you find about an idiot TI filming instead of following procedures you can find a hanful of experiences of vidiots flying with tandem pairs that are well short of the needed skillset. Tandems in general are 100% about money. I try to make it as instructional as possible so I don't feel cheap, but it is still true."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iFlyFast 0 #5 July 11, 2012 No one mentioned the USPA. Can anyone tell me what are the requirements set by USPA for a person to be recognized as a TI? And what do they say about cameras? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #6 July 11, 2012 QuoteNo one mentioned the USPA. Can anyone tell me what are the requirements set by USPA for a person to be recognized as a TI? And what do they say about cameras? The answers to these questions are in the SIM. You do have one, don't you? You have read it, haven't you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 21 #7 July 11, 2012 QuoteNo one mentioned the USPA. Can anyone tell me what are the requirements set by USPA for a person to be recognized as a TI? And what do they say about cameras? Some of these answers might be in the USPA SIM, but some of them might require the USPA IRM, which unfortunately is not on-line in its entirety. The "IRM Essentials" is, and you might find some answers there. Or you could trust the answers you might get here. I suggest the former. It will give you a head start toward the day you might get an instructional rating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #8 July 11, 2012 Outside video is old-school and dates back to the days when videographers wore cameras on their helmets and VCRs strapped to their chests. As video equipment got smaller, it allowed outside videographers to make a living filming students. When video cameras got even smaller think Sony PC 9), they eventually allowed TIs to video their own students. Whether a TI videos his own students, depends upon several factors. First, does he have more than 100 tandem jumps? (An industry-wide standard: see the 19 commandments by Jump Shack, Strong and UPT). OTOH, Some TIs know that they lack the skills to video and keep their students alive. Some DZOs are not willing to pay extra for inside video. Some DZs are over-run with aspiring outside videographers and their union is very strong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #9 July 11, 2012 I've never liked Handcam footage. There's no sense of perspective relative to the world at large, it's wobbly, usually uncentered and has a limited viewpoint - attached as it is to the instructors hand. I will always recommend my mates to get a proper vidiot to film them. One who can get a great shot of the exit. One who can place the tandem pair in a great shot, with fluffy clouds in the background to frame them and one who can be there as they land. If they want footage of the canopy portion, fair enough - edit that in, but I wouldn't recommend paying a similar amount for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #10 July 11, 2012 QuoteI've never liked Handcam footage. There's no sense of perspective relative to the world at large, it's wobbly, usually uncentered and has a limited viewpoint - attached as it is to the instructors hand. I will always recommend my mates to get a proper vidiot to film them. One who can get a great shot of the exit. One who can place the tandem pair in a great shot, with fluffy clouds in the background to frame them and one who can be there as they land. If they want footage of the canopy portion, fair enough - edit that in, but I wouldn't recommend paying a similar amount for it. ........................................................................... Like I said: on some DZs, the outside videographers have a very strong union. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #11 July 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteI've never liked Handcam footage. There's no sense of perspective relative to the world at large, it's wobbly, usually uncentered and has a limited viewpoint - attached as it is to the instructors hand. I will always recommend my mates to get a proper vidiot to film them. One who can get a great shot of the exit. One who can place the tandem pair in a great shot, with fluffy clouds in the background to frame them and one who can be there as they land. If they want footage of the canopy portion, fair enough - edit that in, but I wouldn't recommend paying a similar amount for it. ........................................................................... Like I said: on some DZs, the outside videographers have a very strong union. Please don't try an insinuate that I'm part of some union. I'm not a vidiot and never have been. For me it's purely a matter of the quality of the product that I've seen as a result of both types. When handycam footage looks as good as outside footage, I'll amend my opinion and my personal recommendations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iFlyFast 0 #12 July 12, 2012 I get the argument for the outside video, but if I was a customer I would be happier having the video of the canopy flying. It allows him/her to express his/her emotions, which are at a peak at that precise moment. And it provides some really nice angles (while under canopy). Maybe this is personal, but I think tandem inside video always gives better results. However, I agree that it would be even better to have both. Since I don't think that is possible, I personally would prefer inside footage. Maybe I could make this a poll. As for the SIM, it doesn't say anything about tandem master jumping with a camera mount. That's probably in the IRM as peek mentioned. I did read the SIM up to chapter 6 (including section 6.9 muhaha ) three times before starting my AFF. Never read the rest though. But I'm guessing that many people don't even read it once. coff coff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #13 July 12, 2012 Quote However, I agree that it would be even better to have both. Since I don't think that is possible, I personally would prefer inside footage. Why not? I've done dozens of these videos, they're a tiny bit more work to edit, but usually come out pretty well and you get the best of both worlds."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeJD 0 #14 July 12, 2012 Quote I do think a wrist mounted camera provides better video for the client. Specially since it allows the under canopy part to be included. But then you don't get to see the parachute go up when they open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iFlyFast 0 #15 July 13, 2012 When I said I don't think it's possible, it's because I think it would be too costly. I doubt that the "management" would be willing to have a vidiot on board if the TM can shoot the dive by himself. MikeJD well you actually can if you place the camera at a good angle. Probably having long arms and a small tandem passenger also helps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
