VR-360 Sucks

[stayhigh 2]

I mean, it opened nice, it flairs, but they suck ass.

It is one of the longest, continually produced ram-air parachute and has ton of jumps as a main, but after all that years can't we make something better???

This mentality of "it ain't broke so i ain't gonna fix it" attitude hinders the progression.

Rant done.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[irishrigger 32]

i am a bit confused,a VR-360 is a tandem reserve,so I am not sure why you asking the question. Do you use it a s a main canopy by any chance?
Personally i have had many many reserve rides on that canopy, and i am very happy with it,It has gotten my big fat arse on the ground safely on many occasions. a reserve is designed to get you down onto the ground safely after a cutaway, it is not designed to have fun after a cutaway.the VR-360 does a great job of doing that.
what performance or what are you looking for under a new canopy?

me personally i like the VR-360 and i would not change it.

Rodger

[gowlerk 2,190]

Quote

I mean, it opened nice, it flairs, but they suck ass.

Please define "suck ass" Seriously, I jump with one on my back often but have never needed it. What am I going have over my head that I don't like?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[pchapman 279]

So it opened ok and flaired ok, so where was the problem?
Hey, it can be fun to rant from time to time, but give us something to work with!

I guess "if it ain't broke and it's gonna cost huge bucks to do all the tests from a big aircraft to certify a new reserve, they ain't gonna fix it".

The landings I've seen with those Sigma / Vector tandem reserves have always had good flares. My only VR-360 ride was with a reasonably light student, so toggle pressure wasn't an issue, and I was actually pleasantly surprised at that.

Without student loops in the toggles one does have to do everything oneself. I have heard someone remark on the heavy toggle pressure with a heavier student, and so he had to think like an accuracy jumper and minimize maneuvering to maintain strength for the flare.

Could the canopy be made smaller? Who knows. At least they don't blow up much. While Strong tandem reserves have a good record as far as I know, years back two friends had them blow up on them in separate incidents (one with amazingly minimal injuries and the other with life altering injuries). While I understand statistics, because I was close to those incidents, I can't help but to much prefer the UPT product!

The only real VR-360 issue I hear about is that it opens in very deep brakes.

That's usually not a problem but occasionally it will get into an oscillation between flying and stalling. (I've seen the same on an accuracy canopy that had deep set brakes). An oscillation usually isn't a real problem, but has scared newbie tandem instructors. Where it really becomes a bit of a problem is if it is in a stall cycle, AND you have line twists, each little problem hampering recovery from the other. I've heard of that happening (on DZ.com) but have no idea how rare the situation might be.

How often have others out there had the stall and unstall cycle happen on a VR-360 opening?

[stayhigh 2]

Only issue was the toggle pressure.
Being on it for the very first time, I practiced turn and flair like nothing else, by 2000 ft I came to realize that "Holy fuck, I better save my arm strength for the final turn and flair.

I had relatively light passenger as well, appox 160 lbs.

After this, I'm rethinking taking anyone over 220 now.

Any storys out there flying vector reserve with very heavy student ??? 240 lbs + ???

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[irishrigger 32]

most of my tandems reseserve rides i have loaded it to the max. because i am 6'5 tall and 290 lbs , never had an issue with steering or flaring.a few years ago i took a 250lbs guy, although i was lot lighter then
nill winds still managed to do a stand up,which even suprised me!
I have beem under Strong,Precision,Paratec and P.d France reserve and the VR-360 is my favorite and prefered option.

[VTmotoMike08 0]

I've landed a VR-360 twice and a strong master 425 twice and I would greatly prefer the VR-360. In my opinion, the 425 flies like a school bus, taking forever to turn. The VR-360 flew as similar to my sport rig reserve as I could want. I did have more toggle pressure than the strong 425 but it also flared much better. Nothing to complain about in the VR-360.

[jurgencamps 0]

stayhigh

Only issue was the toggle pressure.
Being on it for the very first time, I practiced turn and flair like nothing else, by 2000 ft I came to realize that "Holy fuck, I better save my arm strength for the final turn and flair.

I had relatively light passenger as well, appox 160 lbs.

After this, I'm rethinking taking anyone over 220 now.

Any storys out there flying vector reserve with very heavy student ??? 240 lbs + ???

Do not forget that the tandemsystem (incl. the reserve) is only rated for a certain max. weight.
Max 500 lbs, gear included?

[DougH 270]

irishrigger

most of my tandems reseserve rides i have loaded it to the max. because i am 6'5 tall and 290 lbs , never had an issue with steering or flaring.a few years ago i took a 250lbs guy, although i was lot lighter then
nill winds still managed to do a stand up,which even suprised me!
I have beem under Strong,Precision,Paratec and P.d France reserve and the VR-360 is my favorite and prefered option.

LOL! You are 6'5 290! I am not surprised that you don't have trouble flaring the reserve. I am guessing you can generate quite a bit more ummph then some of us feather asses!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Dokeman 0]

I wouldn't say it sucks by any means, but an update would be nice. I would like to see something better than the l-bars and the issues with them.

[Quagmirian 40]

Dokeman

I wouldn't say it sucks by any means, but an update would be nice. I would like to see something better than the l-bars and the issues with them.

Why can't rapide or soft links be used on tandem reserves?

[Dokeman 0]

not TSO'd that way, plus I doubt all those lines would even fit.

[Canadianfella 0]

Man up - the VR360 is a great reserve and it's toggle pressure isn't that bad. I'd rather have a VR-360 than a SET, Sigma or hop 330 **in terms of toggle pressure...

The last time I had to use the VR-360, it was because the mammoth on the front of me helped me blow up the main... He was a solid dude around 240lbs and I had no issues flaring it myself. I'm 5'11" and 175lbs... and by no means am I "strong"... We stood up the landing in light wind conditions.

That canopy flares nicely.

**it's not the equipment that's the issue...

[parachutist 2]

Quote

Why can't rapide or soft links be used on tandem reserves?

Rapide links with cadcaded vectr. lines are used on the precision TR-375 reserves. It's nice for rigging.

[RIGGER 0]

The VR360 tandem reserve is one of the best tandem reserves ever made IMO.

As much as I know it has NO failure history.

I used it few times & always was very happy with it A-Z.

I&R it for many years in our Sigma systems - no issues.

In the past I asked PD (Mfg.) & UPT (TSO holder) to stop adding the PCA & Packing tapes but they said - it can't be changed for TSO reasons.

"L" bars links are not an issue all time the rigger knows the work & have the separation tool.

Deep brake setting & Dacron lines are a good benifit coming with the VR360.

Be Safe !!!

[raff 4]

stayhigh

I mean, it opened nice, it flairs, but they suck ass.

It is one of the longest, continually produced ram-air parachute and has ton of jumps as a main, but after all that years can't we make something better???

This mentality of "it ain't broke so i ain't gonna fix it" attitude hinders the progression.

Rant done.

Rats! I can't even do a 450 front riser hook with this old dog! How's a guy to have any fun?!?

If you leave the plane without a parachute, you will be fine for the rest of your life.

[piisfish 140]

Dokeman

I would like to see something better than the l-bars and the issues with them.

could you please explain what issues there are with L-Bars ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Dokeman 0]

Bulky and heavy. Need tightening during every repack. And you have to tie the brake lines with seal thread to prevent problems. They work, Soft links would just be nicer.

[riggerrob 643]

"

Dokeman

... Need tightening during every repack. ...

"

......................................................................................

How does this differ from me finger-tightening every Maillon Rapide, or checking the lark's head knot on every soft-link???????

[riggerrob 643]

"***... And you have to tie the brake lines with seal thread to prevent problems. ...[/quote"

................................................................................

Yes, red thread is a nuisance, but if you install the L-Bar links with smooth corners down and outboard, you reduce the risk of snagging a steering line to almost zero..

Decades ago, I suggested sewing an extra steering guide ring to the top of the riser and flopping it through the middle of the L-Bar link ... but was ignored.
Perhaps you could do the same trick with a soft-link that has a metal ring on the end ... however, adding extra soft links risks voiding the TSO.

[piisfish 140]

Dokeman

Bulky and heavy. Need tightening during every repack. And you have to tie the brake lines with seal thread to prevent problems. They work, Soft links would just be nicer.

are you a rigger ?
sorry if i offend you, but this sounds like whiner 1st world problems...
And I never had to retighten any of the ones I repacked

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[matt3sa 0]

I just remember saying "shit where are the flare toggles.....?" I'm 5'6 175 and my student was about 200. I thought it flared surprisingly well. No complaints here. Go to the gym.