airtwardo 7 #1 October 17, 2015 Back when I was doing tandems, the students always wore head gear - just another 'step' in getting them ready for the 'real thing'. Not for nuthin' but I bet that chop left a mark. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rover 11 #2 October 17, 2015 I think that students should wear soft helmets at all times and that all TIs should wear helmets as well. I'm sure there must be photos now of head injuries to TIs out there. Anyone got any to post? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justme12001 0 #3 October 17, 2015 I think soft helmets on students is fine, I don't like the idea of hard helmets on them. Helmets for the instructors is a good idea as well. I saw the aftermath of a double riser slap that almost ripped the TI's ears off! Literally!! He had to get stitches to "reattach" both ears. I worn atleast a soft helmet ever s Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #4 October 17, 2015 I'm curious as to the rational behind students not being given headgear? Is for the photo \ video or are we really considering it that much if a carnival ride it's no longer deemed necessary? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 798 #5 October 17, 2015 I would prefer to keep my tongue and teeth as they are, so please no hard helmets for students. I always wore a hard helmet with Strong rips to keep my ears attached but almost never wore one when jumping Sigmas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
douwanto 22 #6 October 18, 2015 What in your opinion is the purpose of the student wearing a helmet? Im just curious... I personally dont like them on the student. We use soft helmets to protect the instructor and not the student... no real protection for either in my opinion. I have a few tandems and have yet to have an issue with my students head, They can hear me better with no softie under canopy and I can hear them better as well. I guess there are instances where helmets have protected instructors from head injuries maybe from a wing or hand rail or something but not from the students Ive just never had an issue.... so far... knock on wood. Uncle/GrandPapa Whit Unico Rodriguez # 245 Muff Brother # 2421 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #7 October 18, 2015 douwanto What in your opinion is the purpose of the student wearing a helmet? Im just curious... I personally dont like them on the student. We use soft helmets to protect the instructor and not the student... no real protection for either in my opinion. I have a few tandems and have yet to have an issue with my students head, They can hear me better with no softie under canopy and I can hear them better as well. I guess there are instances where helmets have protected instructors from head injuries maybe from a wing or hand rail or something but not from the students Ive just never had an issue.... so far... knock on wood. In my opinion - a helmet give an added degree of protection to the customers head. As illustrated in the second pic above, there are instances in which the added protection could most likely be beneficial. A soft hat is better than nothing and can soften a head butt the TI may inadvertently recive. If we could 'knock on wood' to guarantee things will always go perfect we wouldn't need reserves...it's the time that they don't we need to lean toward the safer side. But that's just MY opinion. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhays 86 #8 October 18, 2015 QuoteI'm curious as to the rational behind students not being given headgear? Meh. As the saying goes 'when in Rome...". I've worked at places where it's required for both, and places where it's not. To each their own. I've can see the advantages for the instructor with a student wearing a frap hat, but after only 2 headbutts(one on exit, one on landing) since starting doing tandems it's not worth the effort for me. QuoteIs for the photo \ video or are we really considering it that much if a carnival ride it's no longer deemed necessary? The carnival ride/student issue would be a good poll question in another thread.“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #9 October 19, 2015 I've worked where soft hats are required for students. I've worked where they're unheard of. Don't care either way but I'll keep the hard helmet on my head. If my student asks why, I tell 'em "I HAVE to be awake for the skydive. You don't." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #10 October 19, 2015 Never had a student head butt me during a jump. But a hard helmet is going to reduce the clearance between their head and my face!"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #11 October 19, 2015 DougH Never had a student head butt me during a jump. But a hard helmet is going to reduce the clearance between their head and my face! I've had quite a few jam my head into the top of the door. That's why I like a good helmet for my noggin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 4 #12 October 20, 2015 not sure about the helmet issue, rather wonder why his hand-cam hand is out rather than on the reserve handle as he pulls his cut-away? Or was it a simultaneous extraction perhaps...I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #13 October 20, 2015 How do you know he hasn't pulled the reserve handle already in that shot? His hand would roughly be where it would be following a pulled reserve handle."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #14 October 20, 2015 koppelnot sure about the helmet issue, rather wonder why his hand-cam hand is out rather than on the reserve handle as he pulls his cut-away? Or was it a simultaneous extraction perhaps... That's a very good catch."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #15 October 20, 2015 Yes John, Like you, I have had dozens (?) hundreds of students jam my head I to the ceiling, door frame, underside of the wing, etc. For the first few years, I tried to lead by example by wearing a leather trap hat, but I got slapped in the ears by too many risers. That is why I wear a hard shell helmet. When young TIs ask me about helmets, I recommend full-face to protect their jaws, but with the visor removed to allow them to talk with students after opening. As for student helmets .... For decades, I followed Strong Enterprises dogma about putting leather helmets on students. Now I regard student helmets as more of a way to keep lawyers off my back. After my last encounter with personal injury lawyers, I feel like an Afghan "tea boy!" As we watch the cycles of fashions on student gear, I keep seeing "last year's fashion" for licensed jumpers becoming "this year's fashion" for student jumpers: cheapos, Lopos, Para-Commanders, belly-bands, B-12 Snaps, Quick-Ejector Snaps, Pioneer twin zipper jump-suits, French para-boots, Expert Cypres, hockey helmets, frap hats, etc. Once the sky-gods have sold all their second-hand gear, fashions for students change again. Ho hum! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kawisixer01 0 #16 October 20, 2015 After numerous times of getting my head smacked into various parts of the inside plane and my bottom lip split pretty regularly I started looking at seriously wearing a full face. The final straw was the umpteenth time i got my face fully slobbered with snot and spit and i ended up with a pretty nasty case of pneumonia. I wear a bonehead revolve. It closes easily with one hand and is easy to open. I picked it mostly because when opened it gives the best ability to easily talk to the student as you face is fully exposed with no chin bar. I reach up and flick it closed just before exit. I've attempted to get students to use frap hats but they seem to hate them. They look terribly dorky and many folks are hesitent to want to put something on their head that lots of other folks have worn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #17 October 20, 2015 DJL ***not sure about the helmet issue, rather wonder why his hand-cam hand is out rather than on the reserve handle as he pulls his cut-away? Or was it a simultaneous extraction perhaps... That's a very good catch. Is it a catch? One hand per handle, duh right. You pull the cutaway, risers release and in this case the skyhook is going through its motions. Your right hand stays roughly in this spot because you arch through the deployment. You pull the reserve handle after the risers release, even though the skyhook or rsl has pulled the pin(pins). You might be quick draw mcgraw with the timing of the cutaway and then reserve pull. Again your hand would end up roughly in that location if you are arching through the reserve deployment and the camera snaps the still at the right time, or your grab the right frame. The assertion being made is that this guy kept the handicam in a filming position and didn't pull the reserve. You can't tell that from a single frame."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justme12001 0 #18 October 21, 2015 You are correct, you can't say one way or the other if he pulled the handle or not from this one frame. I would think, if he hadn't pulled the handle, you would be able to see at least part of it still sitting in it's pocket. It could be completely covered, but my guess is that he pulled it and is at arm stretch in this pic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #19 October 21, 2015 Can't see any pins on the flaps, cables, or handles so he may very well have it in his left hand."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #20 October 29, 2015 airtwardoI'm curious as to the rational behind students not being given headgear? Is for the photo \ video or are we really considering it that much if a carnival ride it's no longer deemed necessary? The biggest problem I've encountered with it is the students are resistant themselves because soft helmets don't look "cool". I insist those with dreadlocks and those that wear OTG goggles use them and thats a pain in the ass most times.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #21 October 30, 2015 I don't care until they have dreadlocks with BEADS! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #22 November 4, 2015 riggerrobI don't care until they have dreadlocks with BEADS! I cannot take someone with dreads on early Sunday loads. I will gag."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davidclark 0 #23 November 6, 2016 I´d rather have the student wear a helmet and wear a full face myself than risking all the legal issues in case anything happens. I read this a few years ago and I think it makes a good point Preventing Tandem Fatalities Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #24 November 10, 2016 Unless it is cold I don't wear a helmet now (I did when I started because I wore a protrack) Most of my students don't either. I only have 2500 tandems but have never been head butted because I'm looking UP at the canopy as I deploy. And as one who was given head lice by a pastor visiting from Africa, I don't blame people for not wanting to put a hat on their head worn by 100s of people. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
