JohnMitchell 16 #1 October 19, 2015 As tandem masters, we got pretty used to being last out and all alone in the sky under canopy, only the other tandem canopies for company. Now, with the increased popularity of wing suiting, I'm finding my skies a bit more crowded. Saturday I'm under canopy with Erika after a great jump. We're at about 3500 feet when I tell her to start looking around for wing suiters. One of them opens above and about 200 yards from us. I point him out to my passenger and comment that he has a bunch of line twists. Soon his path is curving to cross over us and I said "Let's steer away from him in case he chops." About 15 seconds later, my student gets to watch a nice wing suit cutaway, with the reserve opening just below our level. I'm glad we got out of the way, right? We also were about the same level on final. I know what it's like to be under a reserve, so made sure I went behind the guy. He had had enough excitement for one day. Anyway, that was my one jump Saturday before the weather closed in. Always something new. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DougH 270 #2 October 19, 2015 This also happens with dropzones operating two smaller Cessna's, especially with AFF students mixed into the loads."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shorehambeach 9 #3 October 19, 2015 One of them opens above and about 200 yards from us. John. Did you give him words of advice afterwards ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #4 October 19, 2015 We chatted. I'm okay with the 200 yards separation, esp. with a touch of vertical (in case of line twists, etc.) I never saw that we were on a collision course prior to deployment. But there have been serious incidents when a higher jumper has cutaway and fallen into a lower jumper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #5 October 19, 2015 DougH This also happens with dropzones operating two smaller Cessna's, especially with AFF students mixed into the loads. Or turbine DZs with AFF and tandem on the same load. I do spend a bit of time steering way clear of students. Luckily their landing area is about 1/3 mile from mine. Lots of separation on final. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #6 October 19, 2015 I thought we eliminated that problem a couple of years ago. First, we assigned different flight paths for wing-suiters and freefallers. Secondly, we made it unfashionable for wing-suiters to use tandems as "pylons" on their way back to the DZ. IOW we banned wing-suiters from "buzzing" tandems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WickedWingsuits 0 #7 October 19, 2015 riggerrobI thought we eliminated that problem a couple of years ago. First, we assigned different flight paths for wing-suiters and freefallers. Secondly, we made it unfashionable for wing-suiters to use tandems as "pylons" on their way back to the DZ. IOW we banned wing-suiters from "buzzing" tandems. What I think makes the biggest difference is when wingsuiters and TI's talk prior to the load and agree on the holding area for tandems and the opening area for wingsuiters. The wingsuiters can normally go more or less upwind. It starts to get complex when there are also a lot of wingsuit groups on the load, and in that case they are better off on a fun jump load with no tandems.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #8 October 20, 2015 There is no buzzing of tandems at our DZ. However, we do share a common landing area. Ours is the only DZ in our area that permits wingsuiting, and we have a large contingent of them. We'll have to continue to work with them. My only safety issue so far has been if they should have to chop above me and traffic in the landing area. Our DZ rule is "tandems have right-of-way" but you don't want to be "dead right". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DiverMike 5 #9 October 20, 2015 Quoten that case they are better off on a fun jump load with no tandems. In a perfect world, that may be true, but given that the wingsuiters and TI's are all experienced skydivers, they should be able to agree on a plan and stick to it. (Starting with no buzzing of tandems). My DZ runs two caravans, so it is nearly impossible for me to wait for a load that doesn't have tandems. I just don't feel obligated to buzz them, so the issue is avoided. For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stayhigh 2 #10 October 20, 2015 I can't wait for someone to fly through my lines.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #11 December 10, 2015 It's not exactly difficult to TALK to the other people on the load. I know all the TIs at my home DZ and when I'm flying WS we always discuss opening while waiting for the plane. The students generally are interested in seeing the suits too. Tandem canopies are also pretty easy to spot. There is no real excuse for getting too close to them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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DougH 270 #2 October 19, 2015 This also happens with dropzones operating two smaller Cessna's, especially with AFF students mixed into the loads."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shorehambeach 9 #3 October 19, 2015 One of them opens above and about 200 yards from us. John. Did you give him words of advice afterwards ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #4 October 19, 2015 We chatted. I'm okay with the 200 yards separation, esp. with a touch of vertical (in case of line twists, etc.) I never saw that we were on a collision course prior to deployment. But there have been serious incidents when a higher jumper has cutaway and fallen into a lower jumper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #5 October 19, 2015 DougH This also happens with dropzones operating two smaller Cessna's, especially with AFF students mixed into the loads. Or turbine DZs with AFF and tandem on the same load. I do spend a bit of time steering way clear of students. Luckily their landing area is about 1/3 mile from mine. Lots of separation on final. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #6 October 19, 2015 I thought we eliminated that problem a couple of years ago. First, we assigned different flight paths for wing-suiters and freefallers. Secondly, we made it unfashionable for wing-suiters to use tandems as "pylons" on their way back to the DZ. IOW we banned wing-suiters from "buzzing" tandems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #7 October 19, 2015 riggerrobI thought we eliminated that problem a couple of years ago. First, we assigned different flight paths for wing-suiters and freefallers. Secondly, we made it unfashionable for wing-suiters to use tandems as "pylons" on their way back to the DZ. IOW we banned wing-suiters from "buzzing" tandems. What I think makes the biggest difference is when wingsuiters and TI's talk prior to the load and agree on the holding area for tandems and the opening area for wingsuiters. The wingsuiters can normally go more or less upwind. It starts to get complex when there are also a lot of wingsuit groups on the load, and in that case they are better off on a fun jump load with no tandems.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #8 October 20, 2015 There is no buzzing of tandems at our DZ. However, we do share a common landing area. Ours is the only DZ in our area that permits wingsuiting, and we have a large contingent of them. We'll have to continue to work with them. My only safety issue so far has been if they should have to chop above me and traffic in the landing area. Our DZ rule is "tandems have right-of-way" but you don't want to be "dead right". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #9 October 20, 2015 Quoten that case they are better off on a fun jump load with no tandems. In a perfect world, that may be true, but given that the wingsuiters and TI's are all experienced skydivers, they should be able to agree on a plan and stick to it. (Starting with no buzzing of tandems). My DZ runs two caravans, so it is nearly impossible for me to wait for a load that doesn't have tandems. I just don't feel obligated to buzz them, so the issue is avoided. For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #10 October 20, 2015 I can't wait for someone to fly through my lines.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #11 December 10, 2015 It's not exactly difficult to TALK to the other people on the load. I know all the TIs at my home DZ and when I'm flying WS we always discuss opening while waiting for the plane. The students generally are interested in seeing the suits too. Tandem canopies are also pretty easy to spot. There is no real excuse for getting too close to them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
