Talk back

[JohnRich 4]

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Even if you do 20 jumps a weekend, that is only 20 minutes in freefall - the rest of the time on the ground and in the plane is spent being part of the community.

A fellow skydiver once commented about this aspect of the sport. It went something like this:

We spend 20 minutes packing chutes, and socializing.
Next, we spend 20 minutes dirt-diving, and socializing.
Then we spend 20 minutes riding the plane to altitude, and socializing.
And we do all that, just so we can share one minute of freefall together!

So for every skydive we make, there is at least an hour of socializing with our fellow skydivers.

'Talkback" is just an extension of that, which allows the socializing to continue all week, so that we can all get to know each other much better.

[Luv2Fall 0]

It would be like a cancer.....growing ever so slowly.

[JoeyRamone 0]

Thing is American politics is proberbly interesting if you are an American, but for the rest of the world, real, who cares? I think domestic politics from any country should stay out.***

Politics make the world go around. Where are you from?

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

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Here is a lowly suggestion:
Have someone that doesn't mind the political/gun control debates be a moderator in ONLY THOSE FORUMS, no others. Then, other greenies that don't appreciate the political forums can just ignore them... What say you?

Not a good idea at all. You see, it's the PGR (partisan US politics/Gun control/Religion) threads and the bashing and finger-pointing they cause which destroy the otherwise friendly "community" feeling of Talkback. Ten people starting ten new PGR threads a day have run amok and have caused chaos to the point of people thinking it's ok to start retaliatory threads to question our guidance. They have created an atmosphere where other new posters think that they must post chatty stuff in the specified forums. No amount of "sticky" posts at the top of the screen have made a difference. You want more guidance? That is what you will get if and when TB comes back online. Rec is a great place to spout pious garbage; not here.

[Michele 1]

Sangiro,

I have a few thoughts I'd like to share. It's your site, it's done well until this last week, so obviously you know more than me. Asskissing done with (hey, it's better than taking you out back and beating you up)....

~Add several moderators to TB, and remove those who are "done" with it.
~I've seen some explanations posted on the bottom of the locked threads, and those seem to head the issue off at the pass. Perhaps have that become a regular thing, rather than just delete or lock with no explanation.
~Create a limit of how many posts a person can make on TB...say, 12 a day. Then, unless there is a major catastrophe (ala 9/11, the Spain bombings, one of our brethren's death), those limits are stuck to.
~If a person is warned, and continues the behavior, they are banned fo 7 days (first offense), and increase that if they don't learn their lesson.
~Don't punish the whole for the actions of a few.
~Remove all status titles, and put instead the time they joined.

Look, if it's about respect, then that's something that's earned. We respect you, but that's been earned. If there is a continuing respect issue, perhaps it needs to be examined from both perspectives? From both sides?

I know that TB is a very valuable part of this community - and not because it "sponges" the chatter from other parts. It's a place to make friends, develop resources (how many times have I gotten help with computer stuff??? About a bazillion...) outside the strict parameters of skydiving-specific topics. Some of the best friends I have I've never met - because they live outside the country, or the other side of the US - but I share my heart with them. I met them here, in TB.

In re: politics/religion. These are topics which are important to me. I don't click on "are you HOT?" or "BOOBIES", "Single SkyCHICKS?" or "Football"...those are not important to me. I will say this: I've learned tons and tons from the religious and political threads. Different perspectives are important...I am not sure that eliminating that from TB would be appropriate. I find far more value in learning other people's political and religious perspectives, even if I vehemently disagree with them, then I have ever learned from BOOBIES or BEER threads...

Just my worthless pennies tossed into the ring here.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Skyrad 0]

'My two-cents worth'

There you go overcharging again!

Seriously though, having a discussion about something you feel strongly about is one thing but it was getting mad. I also think alot of the threads you put up were designed just to crank people. I have to admit I'm guilty of being reactionary in some of those threads. What I got fed up with in TB was people bashing other countries all the time. A bit of good natured teasing is one thing but some people were just plain nasty. I would personaly be glad to see the back of gun threads and election politics. I'm sure most Americans would find numerous threads on the London council by elections about as interesting as watching paint dry. DZ.com is used by people all over the world not just in the states, might be worth remembering that. A thread, well, if you must but thread after thread is just plain annoying. If and when TB comes back I'd also like to see non offensive, non racist, rules.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[JohnRich 4]

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Seriously though, having a discussion about something you feel strongly about is one thing but it was getting mad. I also think alot of the threads you put up were designed just to crank people.

No "cranking" is ever intended. If some people get themselves worked up into a froth, that's not my doing - I'm not in charge of their emotions - they are. I can't be held responsible for the emotions of others. I get attacked pretty regularly, and I manage to control myself.

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DZ.com is used by people all over the world not just in the states, might be worth remembering that.

I would guess that the majority of users are from the U.S. And if they want to talk about U.S. issues, they should be allowed to do so. Just because there are a few others around that don't care, doesn't mean that those topics should be banned. It just means that those few others from elsewhere should use their eyes and brains and skip over the things in which they aren't interested.

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If and when TB comes back I'd also like to see non offensive, non racist, rules.

I've never seen any overt racism here. As for "offensive", that's a subjective opinion that varies from one person to the next. There is no universally accepted definition of what is "offensive". Some people would put politics and religion discussions into that category. Others wouldn't.

I'm always amazed at the extent to which some people will go to try and squelch the speech of others. (Not referring specifically to you here.)

Honestly, folks, what's so hard about just picking and choosing what you want to see, and skipping over what you don't want to see? Apply the principles of freedom of speech, and freedom of choice.

[Vallerina 2]

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Honestly, folks, what's so hard about just picking and choosing what you want to see, and skipping over what you don't want to see? Apply the principles of freedom of speech, and freedom of choice.

Okay, I still don't think that you get it. People use the analogy of this being Sangiro's house, so we'll go with that.

Let's say that this is Sangiro's house, and he's having people over. At first, there's just a few people getting to know each other better and talking about both serious/non-serious topics. Because it's a small party, it's pretty easy to see that this is someone's home and to respect them.

The party got huge. While there is still a ton of socializing, it's not so much a "group" anymore. It's just a massive amount of people who don't realize that they are trashing someone's house. With such a big group, the loud guy can be louder. The creepy guy can be creepier. The attention whores can be whoring more. The host walks up and asks someone to tone it down, and they respond with, "But you didn't ask Billy to tone it down!!!!" The host wants everyone to have a good time. Sure, guests can try to ignore the people that annoy them, but when you run into them all the time, it can get pretty difficult to do.

I'm not referring to you or your posts. I'm not saying that you have to change your ways. However, I'm saying that everyone needs to change their ways. Everyone needs to be more respectful to the host.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[storm1977 0]

Hey all thought I would throw my 2 cents in too...

I love DZ, I think it is an awsome place to get a greatdeal of info... It is also a great place to meet people who share an appreciation for the same sport. DZ is great because it offers so many things. Swoop, Vid and Photo, Incidents, Gen Skydiving ETC....

I feel talkback too was a great place to vistit (Especially at work )

Now, I was one of the reasons Talkback closed down, and I am asshole for doing what I did. At the time I felt it needed to be done, but in retrospect I realized it wasn't cool and it was disrespectful. (BTW - SkyMonkeyONE - I am sorry if I offended you.) Well, anyway I talked with HH and I feel better about everything. My purpose wasn't to disrespect him or anyone else.

I do hope we get talkback back... I think it was one of the places we just hung out and talked while we were waiting for responses in other more meaningful Forums. Sure there were hot debates, and arguments but hell that is real life. It did start to get out of hand and a bit old I agree and maybe it got away from its intended purpose a bit.

Well my suggestion would be to WIPE OUT all the old threads in there and start over. Come up with more specific rules on what we want and don't want in Talkback. The forum was pretty vague as far as what was allowed... so maybe we just want to tighten it up a bit.

HH and the Greenies - thanks for giving us a great place to come and share info and conversation
Chris

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[Ron 10]

I found some of your posts funny.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 2,027]

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My suggestion is just to delete old threads in talkback

old TB threads are part of what makes our community. Clay's sheep, Skreamer's spoting, etc... Yeah, its goofy, but ist still the soul of dz.com

Its not old threads that are a problem, its dragging a dead horse in every day (several times a day) and starting to beat it over and over again.

Have to agree. It was VERY interesting to go back a year and see what people were saying about Iraq's WMD program before the invasion, and how they subsequently changed their tunes. Without the archives that would not be possible.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,447]

I've GOT it!

I'd contribute to a "rubber room" that had rotating moderators. How do you get to be a moderator? You get tagged by one of the permanent greenies or Sangiro for being too persistent in some quasi-legal netiquette ugly-group

In other words, if you post too many political bashing posts (yes, on either side), or if you argue with every single anti-opinion in gun threads, or can be counted on to consistently slam others will pointless one-liners because they disagree with you, well, then you're sentenced to a 1-month stint moderating.

By the way -- that one month is the next 30 days that you log on. You can't get out of it by actually working and not logging on for 30 days .

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[AggieDave 6]

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Have to agree. It was VERY interesting to go back a year and see what people were saying about Iraq's WMD program before the invasion, and how they subsequently changed their tunes. Without the archives that would not be possible.

You missed the point!

The point was all the the things that make DZ.commers DZ.commers. The "legecy" of the people here, not the stuff that put DZ.com in the position it is now (war, politics, guns, etc...although I've been very guilty of contributing in the past).

Stuff like Skreamer's spot, the origin of Clay's sheep, Sis's leather, Merrick's boss getting pissed about DZ.com, the Spaceland gathering, the Texel gathering, etc. All the stuff you've probably missed, but is very worthwhile for everyone that was here. There are new things going now to that will become apart of the fabric of DZ.com and the people there.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skyyhi 0]

With all due respect to Sangiro. . .this has been quite a week and I am not happy without my TalkBack. I wasn't a participant in the particular incident that got talkback locked down and I am being made to "suffer" (used for lack of a better term) because of others. I feel kind of like I got my hand slapped in school because the kid sitting next to me was talking out of turn.

Personally, I don't think this is the way to solve problems that creep up in talk back. If people want to be jerks on the site then pull them off and give them a warning. If they come back after the warning and do the same stuff, then suspend their account. It is that simple. Talkback is a great feature of this site and a great place to meet people. I have met quite a few of the people I talk to on that site because the site was available.

Sangiro, I love you for creating this site, but I am tired of being punished for others actions. . .please let us have our talkback back.

________________________________________
Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ
FGF #6
Darcy

[Gawain 0]

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I've GOT it!

Me too!

Sangiro will open or close, in part or in whole, adjust Talk Back or any other forum, change or not change the rules, add or remove items from his website, at a time of his choosing, with or without notice to any of us, with or without any perceived approval by us, with or without any gratitude from us (something that is sorely lacking in this "discussion" IMO), only when he is ready, and not before then.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[skybytch 273]

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Sangiro will open or close, in part or in whole, adjust Talk Back or any other forum, change or not change the rules, add or remove items from his website, at a time of his choosing, with or without notice to any of us, with or without any perceived approval by us, with or without any gratitude from us (something that is sorely lacking in this "discussion" IMO), only when he is ready, and not before then.

Yup. You get it.

[wmw999 2,447]

Um. It was a joke. Really. Probably not the right place for it, but it's April Fool's day.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[bbarnhouse 0]

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Sangiro will open or close, in part or in whole, adjust Talk Back or any other forum, change or not change the rules, add or remove items from his website, at a time of his choosing, with or without notice to any of us, with or without any perceived approval by us, with or without any gratitude from us (something that is sorely lacking in this "discussion" IMO), only when he is ready, and not before then.

Exactly so. Folks can quit whining abut the injustice of it all. It just won't make a bit of difference.

[skydivegirl 0]

I got the joke Wendy

Pink Mafia Sis #26

[airdweller 0]

It seems funny to me, cause this thread seems to be taking the place of talk back
I guess you can take the talk back away from the people, but you cant take the people away from talk back

P.S. HH and greenies, Thanks, you are appreaciated.

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"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[Nightingale 0]

and that's exactly why many people here, including Sangiro and several mods, have said that something like talkback is necessary to keep chatter out of other forums.

[skymama 37]

I like you analogy, Val.

Some people keep talking about how they wish it was like the old-days in Talkback, back when there was only 1 forum. I believe the reason that is, is because the forum still consisisted of chit-chat, not endless debates or seed-posts with the intention of starting a debate. As far as I can remember, most of the debates (if there were any) centered on skydiving, not PGR back then. It was mostly a lot of playfulness...it was fun. Talkback was really fun back in the day.

It's like being in a noisy bar. If everyone keeps their voices at the same level, a whole bunch of conversations can take place. As soon as a loud-mouth comes into the place, the whole vibe of the bar changes. Try as you might to ignore him and continue your conversations, you can never block him out entirely. In my opinion, the PGR threads had that effect in Talkback.

Today was an interesting day in the Team Room. For all of you complaining that it's not fair to take the site away from the masses because of a few people, I just want to tell you that we need that break so we can discuss the matter with our full attention to be able to move forward. Work with us, please.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[stateofnature 0]

Tune in for more TEMP TALK BACK right here at
Suggestions and Feedback!!!

[feuergnom 28]

this quote seems symptomatic:

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you were the one that started the majority of those. Why?
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Gosh, I started non-skydiving discussions in a forum for non-skydiving discussions. Horrors!

Why? Because I and many others enjoy hashing out those issues, and I learn from the views of others.

i doubt you do – the fact that your keep on lamenting is proof enough for me. and that goes for most of the others who complain about the loss of THEIR playground (it never was, but you simply don't get it)

some time ago there was a statement in a tb thread (can't recall i word by word) that went like this: being a skydiver doesn't make you a better or special person. if you are a dork you stay a dork (this is not necessarily directed to you)

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[sangiro 25]

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Tune in for more TEMP TALK BACK right here at
Suggestions and Feedback!!!

No you don't. See what happens the moment you abuse it?

Safe swoops
Sangiro