use of booties for breakoff safety?

[mixedup 0]

In terms of a jump with say 8-way to 16-way in terms of numbers, what is the feeling re whether booties/boosters would be slightly better for safety at breakoff? Just wondering if you're on the outer ring and turn and track away without boosters, then there are some people in the base who turn and track with boosters they might be more inclined to go faster and catch up.

I'm assuming the primary answer is it shouldn't make a difference as you're looking out for each other and making sure you're not tracking off in the same direction as another jumper. But still wondering from a secondary consideration point of view. (background is I prefer to jump without booties/boosters, but was just pondering whether I should consider using them for a tiny bit more safety at breakoff)

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[potatoman 0]

Pow, C lic on 101 jumps?
Hope it is not in flat flying....

Anyways, youtube the 16 ways. There is "normally" sequential breakoff. As for booties/boosters, they all have them. The key is to control your speed. So, the guys outer would bullet away, where the guys on the inside, would probably only turn and track a tad later than them, allowing more seperation, and also, they would not "bullet" out.

You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

[sundevil777 102]

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I prefer to jump without booties

Why?

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what is the feeling re whether booties/boosters would be slightly better

Yes, that is why almost everyone uses them.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[NWFlyer 2]

Overtaking on breakoff can happen even if everyone on the jump is (or isn't) wearing booties. That's why the bigger the jump gets, the more important it becomes not for each individual to track as fast and far as they can, but to track the appropriate speed , angle, and distance specified in the breakoff plan (often through use of tracking groups, the mechanics of which the organizer should spend lots of time on).

For the group sizes you're talking about, however, there should be adequate space for everyone to track off on separate radials from the center and get adequate separation, so long as breakoff is high enough and everyone stays on their line. Unless people are drifting off their own line, overtaking shouldn't be a concern. If people can't stay on their line long enough to get safe separation, they may not be ready for a jump of that size.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[CarpeDiem3 0]

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I prefer to jump without booties

Why?

Why not? Skydivers did it for decades before they were invented, without any problems.

They're a lot of hassle. They make running out a landing difficult because they restrict foot movement. The bottoms wear out bringing a premature end to the life of the jumpsuit. And they make some people think that anyone without them is a incompetent or dangerous skydiver.

[sundevil777 102]

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I prefer to jump without booties

Why?

Why not? Skydivers did it for decades before they were invented, without any problems.

They're a lot of hassle. They make running out a landing difficult because they restrict foot movement. The bottoms wear out bringing a premature end to the life of the jumpsuit. And they make some people think that anyone without them is a incompetent or dangerous skydiver.

I jumped for 23 years without booties. When I did get them, I realized how they are very helpful. I do not suffer from any of the negatives that you've mentioned.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[jsaxton 0]

I'm just another asshole on the internet, but, I've been on a _few_ hundred ways so maybe I'm qualified to answer this one

If you are relying on booties for safe break off you have much bigger issues.

Concentrate on turning 180 from the center, grabbing air and flat tracking in a straight line all the way to deployment altitude while remaining aware of where everyone else around you is. And one other thing, don't pay any attention to anyone who suggests doing a barrel roll.

[billvon 3,070]

>what is the feeling re whether booties/boosters would be slightly better for safety at breakoff?

Booties help most people track, and thus in some cases, where distance is needed, booties can help with breakoff. However, _any_ group can break off safely, booties or not, provided attention is paid to breakoff altitudes, distances, deployment altitude, headings etc.

To put it another way, you can break off a 100 way safely with or without booties. But the without-booties 100 way will have to break off a bit higher.

[popsjumper 2]

I have never experienced any of the problems that Carp described. I did spin myself silly the first time I tried a turn with them though.


You have all the right answers to your question.

I would like to emphasize the importance of tracking a straight line. On the size jumps you mention, there should be no reason for anyone to be in another's line. If there is, somebody screwed to pooch. Please note that does NOT relieve you of the necessity and responsibility of keeping your eyes looking out for others.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[mixedup 0]

Thanks for all the answers/advice guys

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[skyjumpenfool 2]

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Thanks for all the answers/advice guys

Outlaw Booties now!!!

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[Krip 2]

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Thanks for all the answers/advice guys

Outlaw Booties now!!!

But but they look , and everyone is wearing them

One Jump Wonder

[jakee 1,563]

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Skydivers did it for decades before they were invented, without any problems.

There's a whole load of stuff that skydivers used for decades that you wouldn't want to go back to. Not because they caused problems, but because the new stuff works better.

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They make running out a landing difficult because they restrict foot movement.

Not if they fit properly.

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The bottoms wear out bringing a premature end to the life of the jumpsuit.

A) Shoe Goo.

B) Mend it

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[DvK 2]

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I'm just another asshole on the internet, but, I've been on a _few_ hundred ways so maybe I'm qualified to answer this one

If you are relying on booties for safe break off you have much bigger issues.

Concentrate on turning 180 from the center, grabbing air and flat tracking in a straight line all the way to deployment altitude while remaining aware of where everyone else around you is. And one other thing, don't pay any attention to anyone who suggests doing a barrel roll.

Maybe going a bit off topic here, but would you have the same opinion concerning separation during freefly jumps?

[popsjumper 2]

We don't need no stinkin' freeflyers.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[skyjumpenfool 2]

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We don't need no stinkin' freeflyers.

Freeflyers wearing .... booties? I think you're on to something here. The next thing out there. I'm thinking of getting a new jumpsuit for RW. I've not needed booties and am comfortable not having them. But, the masses now jump booties. Tracking and seperation seem to be one area of advantage??

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[jsaxton 0]

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I'm just another asshole on the internet, but, I've been on a _few_ hundred ways so maybe I'm qualified to answer this one

If you are relying on booties for safe break off you have much bigger issues.

Concentrate on turning 180 from the center, grabbing air and flat tracking in a straight line all the way to deployment altitude while remaining aware of where everyone else around you is. And one other thing, don't pay any attention to anyone who suggests doing a barrel roll.

Maybe going a bit off topic here, but would you have the same opinion concerning separation during freefly jumps?

Not that I'm a badass freeflyer but on all the freefly jumps I've done the protocol was to backtrack away for a couple of seconds, switch to belly and track as normal, no barrel roll before deployment.

[ufk22 33]

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We don't need no stinkin' freeflyers.

Freeflyers wearing .... booties? I think you're on to something here. The next thing out there. I'm thinking of getting a new jumpsuit for RW. I've not needed booties and am comfortable not having them. But, the masses now jump booties. Tracking and seperation seem to be one area of advantage??

Tracking is only a small part of it. Faster turns, quicker swoops and faster stops, even a lot more range of speed in freefall.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[popsjumper 2]

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Tracking is only a small part of it. Faster turns, quicker swoops and faster stops, even a lot more range of speed in freefall.

This^^^

You caught what the rest of us failed to point out...thanks.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[jtiflyer 0]

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And one other thing, don't pay any attention to anyone who suggests doing a barrel roll.

Hmmmmm.... I remember a day back in byron where you recommended to a newer jumper that he should track off on his back so he could see everybody.

Glad to see those bad habits didn't stick around :P

[danornan 79]

It is "Relative" work, all the way down to the ground. Booties should not make a difference on an 8-way or 16-way.

Dano

[jsaxton 0]

We all learn (hopefully) I remember people telling me to use the 45 degree rule for seperation around that time too.

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And one other thing, don't pay any attention to anyone who suggests doing a barrel roll.

Hmmmmm.... I remember a day back in byron where you recommended to a newer jumper that he should track off on his back so he could see everybody.

Glad to see those bad habits didn't stick around :P

[Ron 10]

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They're a lot of hassle.

So is wearing a helmet. IMO, the hassle of both is worth it.

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They make running out a landing difficult because they restrict foot movement.

6k jumps and never had that problem. Of course at 1k jumps I started to take them off before landing.

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The bottoms wear out bringing a premature end to the life of the jumpsuit.

1. Shoe goo
2. Take them off after opening
3. Hand them and 20 bucks to a rigger.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 2,106]

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It is "Relative" work, all the way down to the ground. Booties should not make a difference on an 8-way or 16-way.

First time I ever wore booties (a long time ago now) was on an 12-way with a star as the first point. I extended my legs to drive in to dock, and shot almost across to the other side. While they should not make a difference, you have to be aware of the extra power they give to your leg movements.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

Booties do make a difference, they are designed to make a difference. Anyone serious about RW should get them and learn to use them correctly.

Anyone that doesn't have them is exercising a reasonable choice and that's fine. But they are completely incorrect in minimizing their effectiveness, badmouthing the feature or trying to rationalize silly excuses for not having them. "I just don't want them" is a perfectly good reason and doesn't need any further justification.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants