Are frap hats worth it?

[cdunham 0]

The incident reports person mentions a couple of times in his analyses that he thinks frap hats actually do more harm than good, as they focus energy rather than disperse it. This seems to make sense, although my understanding was that most head injuries (less than actual fractured skulls - eg concussions) are actually caused by deceleration and the brain knocking around inside the dome, ripping against turbines and all that, in which case the hat should be OK as long as it stretches out the impact over a longer period of time, as helmets do, especially when they crack.
Anyone have any facts on this? Expert opinions? Uninformed drivel that sounds somewhat plausible?
Carl

[mountainman 0]

I would fall under the catagory of: Uninformed drivel that sounds somewhat plausibleBut, I think that frap hats are more for show and to hold some Dytters. They don't seem to do much protecting. Anyway, just my thought.
Bluz
MORE SKYDIVING PHOTOS ADDED!!!
http://home.woh.rr.com/brandonandlaura/

[Geoff 0]

Some more uninformed drivel - well, partially informed. I sometimes wear a frap hat - it's warm in the winter, and definitely keeps the noise out. It's also good for protection against very minor bumps - e.g. against the roof or door whilst moving around in the plane or climbing out.
As for protection against a serious head injury - forget it.
Again a personal opinion, but I would say the Gath hats, despite being a 'hard' helmet, offer a similar minimal level of protection.
In general, I don't think the protection of even the more solid helmets (Nvertigos, factory divers, etc) is well studied or understood. Nothing like the amount of R&D and testing that goes into, say, motorbike helmets.
Geoff

[Zennie 0]

I'm seriously gonna take a look at some of the skiing helmets that are out there. They're Snell rated (unlike any of the skydiving helmets) and my guess is that they're pretty lightweight.
You can get 'em for as low as $50. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Leedom also makes a series that's a little more expensive (around $120-140).
And before y'all laugh too much, remember that Gath helmets were originally designed for surfers. Plus these look fairly aerodynamic. I'll keep ya posted.
------------
Blue Skies!
Zennie
Edited by Zennie on 5/17/01 05:55 AM.

[cdunham 0]

Zennie, it looks like the Snell rating that these meet is specific for snowboarding/skiing. I wonder if that is sufficient for skydiving? This may be a case of apples and oranges (hmmmm... case of apples and oranges... yummmm).
It's interesting that the Leedom claims to have "PATENTED ENERGY ABSORBING RIBS", which would seem to be similar to frap hat "ribs" in how the disperse or concentrate energy.
Yea, this seems like an area that could use some research. I'd hate to shell out $$$ for a helmet that wasn't much better than my hat (style aside, I'm kind of tired of the conehead look Carl

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Frap hats definitely have their place. They are excellent for times when you are moving around small planes with sharp edges; they keep your head warm in mild cold; they hold your dytter; and lastly, they meet the minimum requirements of "helmet" when jumping at DZ's in which they are mandated. Once under canopy you can pull it off and stick it down your jumpsuit so you can swoop in with just your sunglasses on. Granted, they are not going to protect you if you fly head-first into a hangar or your buddy under canopy, but they will ease little head bumps on a four way exit. Besides that, old, stinky frap hats are groovy. Mine is 15 years old and the entire front seam is rotten, re-sewn, rotten again; lovely. I have my 1st-generation Dytter super-tacked to the outside.
As far as protection goes, full-face is the only answer. I have a factory diver (non flip-up version) that I wear for 4-way, 8-way, and when it's COLD outside. If it's hot outside and I am doing 4-way, then I take off the lens and wear goggles over the top. I don't like landing with a lens down because it fucks with my depth perception and peripheral vision.
I know some style and accuracy competitors that jump the ski helmets you were talking about, but some of them complain that because of the air vents they are VERY loud on the inside.
Chuck

[cloud9 0]

On a personal note, I don't use a Fap hat to protect me from impact's. My use is mainly getting out of the plane, just minor bumbs, or snagging hair on the door or in a hinge. But most improtant is riser slap. If you have ever had a riser slap you up side the head and you didn't have on any protection then I bet you had a helment, frap hat or something on the next jump. The only true protection is a Full Face. Then keep in mind its not much in a 50mph impact.
So its worth it to me to avoid them riser burns!!
Bleau Skies

[skybytch 273]

Frap hats are extremely useful. They protect your hair from getting all messed up in freefall, they hold an audible and they smell really good, especially when you have to stuff your face in them to avoid the foul air from your buddy's oh-so-reliable "colonic Dytter".

pull and flare,
lisa

[Dutchboy 0]

Quote

they smell really good, especially when you have to stuff your face in them to avoid the foul air from your buddy's oh-so-reliable "colonic Dytter".

Is that a big problem in SoCal? I find that a Z1 works great for the colonic dytter. Especially for one of our tandem masters that always seems to have the nervous students.
The Dutchboy
http://www.geocities.com/ppolstra

[skybytch 273]

Quote

Is that a big problem in SoCal? I find that a Z1 works great for the colonic dytter.

LOL! I thought the colonic dytter was a problem everywhere there are skydivers and airplanes!
I prefer the frap hat for this cuz it has it's own built-in nice smell (leather...) that counters the not-so-nice emanations from those bean-eating other jumpers butts much better than a hard helmet... my Aviator doesn't work for this purpose at all!
pull and flare,
lisa

[NewGuy 0]

Quote

You can get 'em for as low as $50. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Leedom also makes a series that's a little more expensive (around $120-140).
And before y'all laugh too much, remember that Gath helmets were originally designed for surfers. Plus these look fairly aerodynamic. I'll keep ya posted.

Hey Zennie, did you ever get a snowboard/ski helmet? If so, howzit working out? If anyone else has used these, I'd like to know what they think.
Cheers,
NewGuy

[skymedic 0]

I will just stay with my mindwarp..even iff I can barely hear my time out...
Marc
Because I fly, I envy no man on earth

[riggerrob 643]

My leather hat has been gathering dust in the closet for almost a decade!
Sure it was fashionable back in the eighties and was a convenient place to hang my Dytter, but the only protection it provided was to keep my ears warm on sunrise loads.
Fashion changed the morning a dust devil collapsed half of my canopy and I PLF'd into the desert. Proof of my PLF technique was in the bruises all the way up my left leg, left arm and the left side of my head. On my way back to the packing area, I bought a Pro-Tec from Air Affair.
A couple of years later, my decision was confirmed when a colleague was almost knocked unconscious when a Strong tandem rig "riser slapped" him.
Last year, another tandem-instructor colleague traded his leather hat for a Pro-Tec after a surgeon sewed his ear back on.
Leather hats fell out of fashion for tandem instructors a long time ago.