Post deleted by sangiro

[DZBone 0]

Brandon,
In case I don't get a chance to say this later, it has been nice knowing you, and reading your posts.
I am looking for some life insurance for myself, and if you'd like, I will pass along what I find. I only hope it gets to you in time.
Give Laura our best.
Carl
not kidding

[mountainman 0]

Post deleted by mountainman

[Michele 1]

Quote

It is people like you that I HATE. If you would read some other
posts, you would realize that I haven't bought/ordered/used this
canopy yet and that I was only RECOMMENDED this.

Dude, relax. Fucking relax. So what if he missed every single one of your posts except this one? Does that really give you the necessary angst to go after DZ, who is only trying to make sure you don't get afflicted with Head Up Ass Syndrome.
Aren't you the same MM who on the other post in Talk Back who said that you were sick and tired of the negativity? And then you go and post this? When you can stand back and take a look at what he was really saying, you'll wonder why you posted as you did. So, what - you hate people who want to see you be safe, and stay around? Then you must HATE me too. You HATE people who want to share their eperience, their knowledge? What the fuck is going on with you?
You stick a post up, and expect no-one to comment except nicey nice things? Especially about going from a 220 to a 169? I mean, shit, man, even I know that's a radical transition, and I don't know the first thing about this sport.
Haven't you been reading what people are trying to do? They're trying to HELP you, and if their assistance is not wanted, when they reach a hand to you, smacking them for doing it is plain nuts.
Whatever else is going on with you, re-fucking-lax, dude.
"What of the dreams that never die? Turn to your left at the end of the sky".
~e e cummings~

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Chris,
sorry I was off skydiving in Quincy and Key West and missed the beginning of this thread. I totally understand where you are coming from and what your concerns are for the "younger" readers/posters. Still, as "someone in the know", I can definitely tell you that Dan's recommendations are not out of line. Here is my input:
Wingload numbers that you would associate with other planforms just don't apply with the Cobalt. The reason is due to the way you are suspended under the canopy, which is to say much farther back than most of today's mains. I will make my comparison in the 120 size to make my point. My wife jumps a Stiletto 120. It is a very twitchy parachute and zips along quite rapidly at my wingload. Body position is very critical at pull time on this main. Greg Offhaus, one of the other riggers at our DZ, jumps a Cobalt 120. To me, it flies like a complete dog. Noticably slower airspeed, much slower toggle response, etc. The difference is that it has a much more powerful flare and will keep on flying at a substantially lower airspeed than that Stilleto. Same goes for Eric Bush's old Sabre 120. His old main definitely "feels" faster than a Cobalt 120. That, my friend, is where the difference is. While the Cobalt has a longer recovery arc in a riser-dive than both of those other canopies mentioned, it handles "mushier" to me in the same size and wingloading, thus making it a safer bet for lower-time jumpers at the same wingload. So, the bottom line is that while "technically" you might think a 1.2 is too high a wingload for those younger jumpers, it actually flies MUCH bigger and acts more like a .08-1.0 wingload.
To get the same "feel" with a Cobalt as you do with your Stiletto or Icarus, you need to load it heavier. That is how we get away with jumping our very-small Cobalts. Loading my Cobalt 75 at 2.4 doesn't feel a bit "faster" really than when I was jumping a Stiletto 97 regularly. The difference is that I have MUCH more bottom-end lift and the thing just does not bow-tie for any reason. My 75 flies great in deep brakes and I have had to land it straight in plenty of times to avoid student traffic.
Perception that all things are equal at a given wingload only applies when you are comparing similar planforms. As the Cobalt/Alpha/Space/Impulse planform works in an entirely different manner, then we, as "the old guys" and professionals, must come up with new tests and ways of evaluating products. This is kind of like the square footage argument that was going on until recently where people were calling canopies one thing, but having them actually be up to 15 square feet different according to PIA.
So, to recount: Is the Cobalt a high/extreme performance main? Yes, when loaded at 2.0 and above. Is it also a feasible intermediate main when lightly loaded? Most certainly. Two of my very best friends who are newish to the sport are jumping them now. One is a 130 pound girl with 100 jumps who has a spanking new Cobalt 120. Her last (I should say first) main was a Hornet 135. You have to believe that I as a very-experienced and conscientious instructor would not have recommended this main had I not felt it was perfectly safe.
Chuck

[mountainman 0]

I have deleted that post. I am sorry. That was really uncalled for and I know it. I guess that post by DZBone kinda pissed me off and made me want to react finally.
Either way, I want to apologize to DZ for my reply and thank you to Michele for having the balls (figuratively) to write me that. I need it! Blue ones all!!
--------------
Drop on in...leave a message

[Michele 1]

welcome back, MM. Thanks for relaxing!
ciels-
me
"What of the dreams that never die? Turn to your left at the end of the sky".
~e e cummings~

[chicagoskydiver 0]

I was in the AFP program at Skydive Chicago, and at that time they had saphires in their student rigs. A saphire is an ultra high performance canopy, IMO. They had me jumping a saphire 210 loaded at about 1.1, and I broke my ankle on my 15th jump (12th under my own canopy). I now use a PD 230, and stand up most of my landings. I tried a silhouette 210 and loved it. I'm still a low timer (54 jumps) but I'll tell you, for all you students out there, I learned the hard way, stick to a more docile canopy and learn to fly it with authority before going to something more demanding. As an aside, SDC is now using sabre 2 canopies in their student rigs, which is nice for an experienced jumper but students don't have any business using them. I jumped one and I felt it was a little too zippy for me at this point, but I look forward to buying one when the time is right.
Hackey

[ramon 0]

Safire's suck. IMHO sorry rigger rob.
You are much better off on a sabre.
ramon

[imdskydiver 0]

Last year a friend of mine bought a Alpha 104 , He had about 150 jumps and his last canopy was a Monarch 170, He was told by Sky Depot that the Alpha does not even get into the High performance range until you hit the 1.7 range, Well he jumps the canopy and finds that an Alpha at 1.6 wing loading was really a very fast parachute and really needed to be respected, Way , Way faster than his Monarch 170, To date he has put about 150 jumps on it and has handled it very good, He is one of the few that an make the transition and live to tell about it , But where were the Ethics in selling a 104 to someone with only 150 jumps.

[DZBone 0]

MM,
No worries. I'm sorry that my sarcasm hit a little too hard.
When I said that it was nice knowing you and reading your posts, I meant it (well most of your posts anyway ). Whatever you decide about the canopy, or whatever, just remember that you have your whole life to downsize, learn to swoop, freefly and everything else.
You are at a point where everything is new and cool, and that is so amazing. It's what makes your posts (and a lot of others here) so much fun to read. However, you also run the risk of wanting to do it all, and wanting it all now, and getting into water over your head.
That's what people mean when they talk about the "100-jump wonder". There is a phase between getting off student status and a point sometime later where you feel like you are in control and can take big chances. Then there comes this point, usually when you see someone go in (maybe a friend), or someone you know gets hurt very badly, or you almost go in yourself, when you realize that a more conservative approach is a good idea. I'm not sure I've reached that point myself yet, although I have had a couple of moments that have made me think twice about a lot of things.
Anyway, good luck, rock on.
Carl

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Quote

But where were the Ethics in selling a 104 to someone with only 150 jumps.

How much did this friend of yours weigh? That makes all the difference in the world to what I will answer. I know plenty of small people that would be absolutely fine under that main.
Chuck

[imdskydiver 0]

He loads it at 1.66 so i guess that would make him about 175 lbs.
He has handled it very well but the question here is , 150 jumps from Monarch 170 to Alpha 104, Don't you think that is quite a transition !

[craddock 0]

Just because he owned a monarch 170 doesn't mean he did not jump anything else in between. I went from a pd190 that I put about 50 jumps on to a Stiletto 107. Of course I did jump something in between first- I just did not own it. Remember that the Alpha is not as fast as the Stiletto or most any canopies for that matter at the same loading.

[imdskydiver 0]

I have a Cobalt 120 and it is the best canopy that i have flown to date, I don't think that it is any faster than my Diablo 135 but it is far faster than the Saber 150 that i borrowed for a jump last weekend .