Cobalt as first canopy

[amir1967 0]

with 60 jumps I've got a vengeance 170 at 1.4 and love it . and yes because I can't jump 6 time in the weekend and sometimes also not evrey weekend I'm just taking my time to learn this canopy.but than I don't know how they compare( coblat & veangeance) ? is anyone know
AM67

[PhreeZone 20]

The Vengence was designed as the step up from the Stiletto. Very Similar airfoil and planform. The Airlocks are one of the main differences. From all reports, the Vengence dives MUCH steeper in a dive then the Stiletto. The Airlocks make for a stiff wing, but increases the pack volume. The Cobalt is a tamer canopy IMHO. Uneven inflation of the Airlocks can easly lead to a spinning mal , unlike on a Cobalt with its straight leading edge. Loading a Vengence at that high of a wingloading is needed to get any advantage out of the airlocks, but why did you get a Vengence when there are better learning canopies out there?
The only other thing that PD makes thats higher performance is the Velocity. And if you think about getting a Velocity at sub 100 jumps..... put me in your will since its only a matter of time.....
A rainy day at the DZ is better then a Sunny day at work

[ramon 0]

Read the crossfire vs cobalt rant from a week or two a go I gave impressions of Vengeance vs cobalt

[ramon 0]

a vengeance can and will feel doggier than a stilleto at the same size in loading. it is very stable in brakes and lightly loaded (a buddy jumped my 135 at 1.4ish) it is not too radical.
My exit weight is 225 and it seems less radical than stilletos, crossfires, cobalts with toggles. However it will out swoop the crap out of a stilleto only due to the fact that it will dive much longer and build up more speed and it has a higher aspect ratio. and it is easy to fly well.
But will it outswoop a Cobalt or a crossfire... now we are talking pilot finesse and wind conditions as all of the canopies are superior swoopers, but I'll place my bets on a Cobalt or an Alpha at the same wingloading to be tops.
ramon

[amir1967 0]

Hi freezone
you are on in will the only problem is that I don't plan to leave any money in it (but you can have the Vengeance) .
Why did i got the vengeance well I wanted a good canopy which will last me for the next 10 years or so without geting board or wanting to downsize every year or so so a specter was not an option .the Vengeance fill safer then a stiletto and a bit newer disign.
AND NO I WILL NEVER DREAM FLYING # VLOCITY OR ANY OTHER CROSS BRACE FOR A LONG TIME #
AM67

[Jimbo 0]

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with 60 jumps I've got a vengeance 170 at 1.4 and love it

Who in the HELL sold you a Vengeance at 60 jumps?

[PhreeZone 20]

Getting a canopy thats probally beyond your current skill set in the hopes of "Growing into it" is'nt smart. What type of canopy training are you planning on getting if any. I don't care for fast of a learner someone is, there needs to be limits drawn somewhere. Wing loading is'nt so much of a concern as training and canopy design. A Cobalt you could have got away with this a whole lot easier, a Vengence? thats questionable.... In 2 years you'll be bored with the canopy anyways so its better to err on the side of saftey and go larger then it is to go smaller and grow into the canopy. If you can't stay current enough on a High Performance canopy to downsize every year or two, then you might want to look at something like the Safire or a Sabre2. Whats your eventiual goal of a canopy? Surfing or surviving? I know with me at 75-150 jumps it was just surviving......
Yo SkyBytch, with the way things have been going on here latley, can I be Canopy Nazi #2?
A rainy day at the DZ is better then a Sunny day at work

[skybytch 273]

Quote

Yo SkyBytch, with the way things have been going on here latley, can I be Canopy Nazi #2?

Kneel before me, my son....
I, being the one true skybytch and bearer of the title Canopy Nazi, heretofore to be followed by the honorific #1, do hereby dub thee, esteemed phreezone, the title Canopy Nazi #2. Go forth now and proclaim the one true religion of big, slow, boring canopies for beginners proudly, and may you always walk back to the packing area.
pull and flare,
lisa

[prost 0]

I think anyone who knows me will not think I am a canopy nazi. I will usually argued for putting novice jumpers on a little higher performance wing than what skybitch recommends if they are a good canopy pilot with good sense. But there comes a point when it just gets plain stupid. A vengence at 60 jumps is stupid. You might get away with it but for what. You will not be able to fly the canopy to the level you need to get the great performance out of it and your risk has shot way up. No extra fun, much higher risk. Where is the balance?
William

[Zennie 0]

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recommended wing loading for on a cobalt for beginers is 1.2-1.4

Now that I've actually jumped a Cobalt, I'll throw in my $0.02 on this. I currently have 162 jumps, most of which are on a PD Sabre 150 loaded at around 1.2. I'm currently demoing a Cobalt 135 loaded at around 1.4.
First off, I absolutely love the canopy, though the openings took some getting used to coming off a Sabre. Now I haven't jumped one at 1.1, but I wouldn't be recommending a Cobalt loaded at 1.4 to a beginner. The Cobalt is a high performance canopy. No wmaybe if you consider someone with my jump numbers a beginner, which I pretty much am, then yes it may be OK. But for someone just off student status? I'm not sure I can go that far. Maybe a 1.0-1.1 loading would be OK, but I think that would even be pushing it.
Again, I'm not knocking the canopy by any stretch, I'm about 99% certain I'm going to buy one when I get the money. I'm just leery of recommending one loaded at 1.4 to a beginner.
"Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control. Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper."

[ramon 0]

Where you gonna be tomorrow I want to jump it.
ramon

[skybytch 273]

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Now I haven't jumped one at 1.1, but I wouldn't be recommending a Cobalt loaded at 1.4 to a beginner. The Cobalt is a high performance canopy.

That's what my boss told me after she jumped one loaded just above 1.4; she has over 6000 jumps and has jumped everything from rounds to Velocity's so I tend to take her word for this type of thing. She did say it flies "bigger" than an equivalent sized other canopy, but did not feel comfortable recommending a 1.4 wingloading to a novice.
As for a Vengeance at 60 jumps, all I can say is my boss with over 6k jumps did a hell of a job breaking her leg/ankle with one loaded around 1.4...
pull and flare,
lisa

[Zennie 0]

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Where you gonna be tomorrow I want to jump it.

Where were you yesterday!
I'm prolly going to be washing my car at home. But I'm hoping Atair will let me have it a couple of extra days so I can demo it this weekend as well (if I go be the shipping rules, I'd have to send it back Friday, but I'm hoping they'll let me send it back Monday).
I'm also taking Wed - Fri off so I'm sure we can work something out.
"Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control. Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper."

[amir1967 0]

I've know some people that broke legs and other part on Manta's and Specter's with wing load 1 or 1.2 that's not an indication of a canopy to me.
I agree that's not for every one ,but still think that it is a safe choice (for this type of sport) at least for me
thank for the concern.
AM67

[skybytch 273]

Merely passing on what I've seen in almost 12 years of jumping... I've had to sell far too many of my friends rigs because they got hurt and for whatever reason (death, fear, their family's fear, $$, doctors orders, whatever) they won't be jumping ever again. I miss them. Seems to me that those who've been jumping for years then get hurt get back in the air as soon as they possibly can, but many of those who've been jumping for a couple of years or less when they get hurt never come back.
Agreed, you can mess yourself up with any canopy, but generally the injuries are worse on a more aggressive or higher wingloaded canopy than the same mistake would produce on a slower, less aggressive canopy... at least from what I've seen.
pull and flare,
lisa

[amir1967 0]

I agree with you on this one
let stop with it here
how you write pull high it is lower then you think
AM67

[RemiAndKaren 0]

Amir: please say its a troll.. please....
Remi
Muff 914

[ramon 0]

If it's not he will be in the hospital sooner or later and a 238 pound exit weight doesn't exactly fall lightly either.
BSBD
ramon

[Merrick 0]

I've got an idea, lets have a bounce contest.... We'll both set up on final appraoch (you under your vengence @ 1.4 & me under my sabre @ 1.2), do a 180 hook at about 100ft, & whoever lives wins... bet I win! Seriously tho, I did a hell of a job breaking my leg on my canopy & I didn't even have a bad landing (just caught a bad spot in the landing area). So yes, to prove your point you can get just as hurt on a larger canopy of lower performance, but had I been under the vengence things probably would have been much worse... no one will EVER be able to convince me that my canopy isn't more forgiving than yours... and don't throw in the whole "skill factor," cuz for the amount of jumps I have (just a few more than you - 77) I am a damn good canopy pilot!
"Pammi's Hemp/Skydiving Jewelry"

[BPO 0]

Amir,
I see you're from the Netherlands as well...
what's your home DZ?