adamhildreth 0 #1 September 27, 2012 If I'm reading the stats correctly (22,000+ cypres fires and 79,000 sales) then we're looking at 1 / 4 cypress's being activated? Does this sound right? It seems scarily high to me....? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morrison79 0 #2 September 27, 2012 Where are the stats you're reading? link Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #3 September 27, 2012 Interesting stat - where did the numbers come from? I wonder what percentage of those that fired were on student Cypres units? I might think that number would be higher because 1) Well, students and 2) Those rigs are used only a few times by a large number of different jumpers, so the likelihood of multiple fires / unit is much higher than an AAD that's owned by a single individual for a higher number of jumps (at least my hope is that there aren't too many jumpers out there who have multiple AAD fires). So, that assumption above would skew it so that it's not one in four units, but that there are probably a decent number of units in service that have multiple fires."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juggalo17 0 #4 September 27, 2012 If I'm reading the site correctly thats 79,000 Cypres 2s sold and 22,000 loops cut but doesn't say only by Cypres 2s. So I'm guessing that includes the originals as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamhildreth 0 #5 September 27, 2012 Cypres-usa website. the actual wording is: "Over 79,000 CYPRES 2 units now in use! 22,000+ loops cleanly cut, ZERO FAILURES" I'm guessing 'loops cleanly cut' refers to 'in use units' not just a test unit sat there constantly cutting loops Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #6 September 27, 2012 I think that includes test loops. I know I have seen about 10-15 loops cut as part of demos on the ground and I know they test fire a portion out of every batch to verify they are correct.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 36 #7 September 27, 2012 Quote I'm guessing 'loops cleanly cut' refers to 'in use units' not just a test unit sat there constantly cutting loops I don't know if you are aware, but in order to give a CYPRES approval to a container manufacturer ,Airtec test every model at least 36 times. That makes at least 36 'loops cleanly cut' .... http://www.pia.com/piapubs/TSDocuments/TS-112.pdf And don't forget to add another 80 000 + Cypres 1 units to the equation "My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem3 0 #8 September 27, 2012 Don't some reserves have two loops, and therefore two cutters, so that a single Cypres activation would cut two loops simultaneously? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr_Polite 0 #9 September 27, 2012 I would believe that. I know of a DZ that has atleast a few aad fires every year. They're never talked about online but it has ranged from student to highly experienced and also a tandem fire in the last few years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #10 September 28, 2012 Quote Quote I'm guessing 'loops cleanly cut' refers to 'in use units' not just a test unit sat there constantly cutting loops I don't know if you are aware, but in order to give a CYPRES approval to a container manufacturer ,Airtec test every model at least 36 times. That makes at least 36 'loops cleanly cut' .... http://www.pia.com/piapubs/TSDocuments/TS-112.pdf And don't forget to add another 80 000 + Cypres 1 units to the equation That is a recommendation from PIA and it pertains to all brands of AAD.s. The key word is recommended. I doubt that many manufactures have followed this protocol. The intent of TS-112 is to provide a recommended test matrix for any Harness/Container manufacturer (TSOA holder) to complete in order to authorize installations of specific AAD’s into their products. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 36 #11 September 28, 2012 Quote That is a recommendation from PIA and it pertains to all brands of AAD.s. The key word is recommended. I doubt that many manufactures have followed this protocol. The intent of TS-112 is to provide a recommended test matrix for any Harness/Container manufacturer (TSOA holder) to complete in order to authorize installations of specific AAD’s into their products. Sparky Hi Michael, In the past, Airtec did all those tests for the manufacturers for free. This is no longer the case. However their testing procedures were the same as the PIA TS-112. I wonder why What I'm trying to say is that if Airtec claim 22 000 'loops cleanly cut', I have no reason to doubt based on their history of testing rigs."My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #12 September 28, 2012 QuoteIf I'm reading the stats correctly (22,000+ cypres fires and 79,000 sales) then we're looking at 1 / 4 cypress's being activated? Does this sound right? It seems scarily high to me....? Testing, testing, testing ..... and some more testing and also lots of demonstrations and some more demonstrations. If even "only" 1/10 cypress's were being activated, and 1/10 of those was a real save, ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamhildreth 0 #13 September 28, 2012 Quote Testing, testing, testing ..... and some more testing and also lots of demonstrations and some more demonstrations. If even "only" 1/10 cypress's were being activated, and 1/10 of those was a real save, ... Thanks for the clarification. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #14 September 28, 2012 Quote What I'm trying to say is that if Airtec claim 22 000 'loops cleanly cut', I have no reason to doubt based on their history of testing rigs. I tend to agree with you. But their claim of “loops cleanly cut” I think is a dig on Argus.SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skybear 0 #15 September 28, 2012 The exact number of saves could be tracked at the timeof Cypres 1 when the cutters had to be replaced at the factory. Now it can only be estimated as they are replaced in the field. The guesses vary between 3000 and 4000 saves. Way more than 2000 are definitely confirmed. 22000 cutted loops seems pretty reasonable with all the testing taken into account., plus all those applications of the Cypres cutter which are not skydive-related. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 107 #16 September 28, 2012 I fired a couple cutters last week. Cut a ripcord cable. Then cut the ripcord pin. Kinda fun, though not particularly meaningful with respect to cutting closing loops. Unless we are going to have steel cable closing loops some day. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,356 #17 September 29, 2012 Hi Mark, Quote Unless we are going to have steel cable closing loops some day. Well, there was once a reserve that was sealed with steel wire. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #18 October 1, 2012 I have a vague recollection of an ad from them in the late Cypres I days stating: 50,000 sold 1,000 saves On the one hand I felt good with that many saves... Until I looked around the DZ and realized there were over 50 people there, and (assuming everything else was true) therefore there was likely one person there that had failed to do the minimum to save their life... Good that who ever that was, was still with us... Bad that 1/50 need it... PULL! Pull On Time. Pull Stable. Pull clear of others. JAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5.samadhi 0 #19 October 1, 2012 each cypres unit may serve multiple people so its probably much less than 1/50. I just bought a 11 year old cypres, I doubt I am the only skydiver that has used it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #20 October 1, 2012 Agreed. Not to mention student rigs. Or those who were saved and never came back. Still while the AAD's are doing their jobs (and the incident reports from 1990-present) show that change) it seems like a high number of AAD's fire because someone didn't do their job. JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #21 October 1, 2012 Quote each cypres unit may serve multiple people so its probably much less than 1/50. I just bought a 11 year old cypres, I doubt I am the only skydiver that has used it Why would you buy an 11 year old AAD? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
melanie91 0 #22 October 2, 2012 To give yourself a year and a half to save for a new one....?! I did exactly that not so long ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites