NtheSeaOrSky 0 #1 December 5, 2001 I was just recently told that a hard/rough opening could be enough to cause leg straps to loosen. YIKES! OK, so without reading into why this was said, how true is this? If so, how loose we talkin' ? Few inches, a foot, how much? The comment just got me to thinkin about what ifs? Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #2 December 5, 2001 A hard opening can most definitely loosen your legstraps. That, plus being other than straight in the harness on opening, can and will cause them to loosen unevenly, causing turn. Older style stainless steel hardware, while looking fantastic, is very prone to this. My Odyssey has the older type stainless and I swear I tighten my legstraps at least five times in the plane. I am about to send the rig back to get the newer "locking" leg hardware that comes on the latest Sunpath rigs. In the past, I have had to sew velcro on some of my legstraps to lock them down. I got tired of my altimeter beating me in the chin on opening because the legstaps came so loose. Now, you wouldn't catch me dead with a chest mount.ChuckMy webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #3 December 5, 2001 In addition to what Chuck has already posted, I just want to add that the ends of the leg straps are "sewn over", so it is unlikely that they would ever completely unthread on a hard opening. Is that what you were beginning to think about? Go take a look at them and try to pull them through the hardware, you'll see what I mean.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #4 December 5, 2001 Chuck:i thought i was the only one with that problem! i have a J-4 container (DOM: 01.2001) with the stainles steel "JUNK" for legstraps, i use stow bands behind the stock bands javelin puts on the straps to keep them from slipping just real far. i remember the first time i deployed, i almost hung myself with my chest strap, and could barely reach my left hand toggle. my rig is going back to florida to sunpath this coming monday. i will give them credit for changing them out, shipping both ways for free. aggie is kewel! thanks sunpath.Richard"Gravity Is My Friend"sorry, i got so caught up in my stainless hardware, i almost forgot to answer this question, yes they will loosen slightly, but that's nothing to be afraid of, aware of yes, but afraid of no. as one of the other posters said, they can't come completely undone because of design. be careful if you start sitflying though! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phastasphuk 0 #5 December 5, 2001 take a look in the fatalities page:http://www.skydivenet.com/fatalities/fatalities_nonus_01.htmlCheck out nr 8. It is suspected this accident was caused cause of legstraps/harness being too loose. He was found with severe injuries to his throat. There some other rumours about this one too but will not present those, cause they are rumours. Stay safe.chris"but hunny, I'll be away from my chute 5 weeks too..." -chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NtheSeaOrSky 0 #6 December 6, 2001 No, wasn't worried about falling out so much as how much an opening can loosen them. A hard opening means a few more inches, or like a foot? Im not even sure what a hard opening is....I mean besides the obvious. I guess I'll know if I ever have one. I have now been shown how to properly tighten and check them. And, I did find out if you tighten them extra tight on the plane just in case, , its a bit harder to keep your legs closer together in freefall. Somewhere there is a happy median Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #7 December 6, 2001 for those of you who haven't seen the newest stainless hardware (from PdF, I believe), it is great and I have not experienced any slipping. granted, I only have 2 jumps with it, I didn't have any of that. Just thought you'd be interested.Brandon-------------http://www.JumpinDuo.com"oh no. Not another one"-Alienangel Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #8 December 6, 2001 QuoteIm not even sure what a hard opening is....I mean besides the obvious. I guess I'll know if I ever have one.Damn right you'll know when you have one. Back in my student days I remember the wave off, the pull, and the gun shot. It turns out that the gun shot was actually my canopy opening, immediatly. Had a friend with a Sabre who was routinly smacked by that thing - he got to the point one day where he was ready to quit jumping because of the pain. Yeah - you'll know when it comes, and you'll wish it never had.Blue skies, soft openings...-Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #9 December 6, 2001 itz coming.........trust me!R.G."Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E150 0 #10 December 6, 2001 I've just picked up a rig that I'm going to be borrowing until January sometime. The leg straps are a little loose (its a bloes rig), even on tightest. To make it fit well, I have to put shorts on over my jumpsuit and a jumper under. I know Im gonna be roasting in America!! Boy!Once done some flat fly jumps on rig, I wanted to try sit fly.A friend told me that the leg straps tend to loosen a bit on a sit fly jump!!!!! Is this right? Does it depend on the harnes (how old etc)?I dont want a chest strap in my mouth. And I'd prefer to be able to reach steering toggles. OMG! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenW 0 #11 December 6, 2001 Brandon,Did you get stainless buckles on your Wings? Do they slip and loosen in the plane? I pick my Wings up soon, also with stainless, and was just wonderin'....B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RemiAndKaren 0 #12 December 6, 2001 Quoteitz coming.........trust me!Richard: on which rigs have you seen the new PdF hardware?RemiMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #13 December 6, 2001 The newest Javs and Odysseys have that newer two-piece stainless hardware that locks firmly. I am definitely getting mine retrofitted.ChuckMy webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unisyn 0 #14 December 6, 2001 Many Manufacturers use or have used the older style leg strap friction adapter the Stainless Steel MS 22040. This piece of hardware slips. Mirage Systems used it in 1998 and after a team reported slippage they sent a notice to the approx. 50 owners that there was a possibility for slipping. 99% of all of those Mirage owner returned the container for new hardware at no charge. Mirage Systems will not use the Stainless Steel MS 22040 hardware on its container. Once the Parachutes de France SP888 hardware became available and was approved by the FAA, Mirage Systems began to upgrade the friction adapters.I personally had the stainless steel MS 22040 and I had slippage under a slow opening canopy. My new rig has the SP888 hardware. I feel that it has a better grip than a non-stainless MS 22040 leg strap friction adapter.If you are jumping a container with stainless steel MS 22040 hardware. Have it changed! Unsymetrical harness loads due to slipping hardware can cause line twists. Contact your manufacturer about upgrading to the SP888 hardware. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #15 December 6, 2001 One field fix is to sew pile Velcro on the side of the leg strap that rubs on the "teeth" of the buckles.This is a short term fix. The long term fix is still to install buckles that slip less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #16 December 6, 2001 E150,If the leg straps on a borrowed rig are too big, get a really thick pair of sweat pants and cut them off just above the knees. This will fatten your thighs and reduce bruising.That trick got me through Army jump school 20 years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #17 December 6, 2001 Hey Ben.....that stainless hardware on the Wings is great. I have not noticed any loosening from any of the buckles. I thin they have been made correctly this time. And, of course, the stainless just looks awesome too!! You won't be disappointed.-------------http://www.JumpinDuo.com"oh no. Not another one"-Alienangel Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #19 December 7, 2001 skymonkey addressed that below. but for sure on my javelin J-4 DOM 01-2001. it's going in monday for the new buckles.Richard"Gravity Is My Friend"if you have a rig with these types of buckles, send them in and have them changed out. the mfgrs will pay frieght both ways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #20 December 7, 2001 IMHO personally, i don't jump borrowed gear, i understand there are times when one must, or not jump at all. if your even entertaining the idea of a sit in this rig you've described, at least make sure the leg straps are secured together after the rig is on you with a pull strap, or an elastic band through the loops on the leg straps, they can, will, and do move.Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E150 0 #21 December 10, 2001 Got 5 flat fly jumps in on it - no worries. Can reach the steering toggles east peasy. It has elastic cord on the leg straps already. Which is cool. Ill get someone to check me out thoraghly before I try sit, if my coach says no, I wont do it! Cheers for advice. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
