mre 0 #1 December 19, 2001 Hi,I'm considering a used Spectre 210 for my first canopy. My question: does anyone have experience jumping the Spectre at low wing loadings? My exit weight would be 185-190 lbs, giving a wing loading of ~0.9. Will the Spectre still be enjoyable at this loading?I know that I should be test jumping the canopy, but unfortunately this will not be possible. I will therefore have to rely on the advice that I can obtain from you and other people...Thanks!/ Martin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff 0 #2 December 19, 2001 I have a friend who jumps a Spectre 170, and I would guess she weighs around 120-130 pounds. Maybe 150 exit weight. She seems to have a great time and be very happy with it.Without knowing your experience or confidence level, sounds like a sensible choice that will still definitely be fun.Geoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brokeneagle 0 #3 December 19, 2001 Hey, mre! I have an exit weight of about 155; after jumping a Fury 220 from studenthood, I finally bought a ZP- I jump a Spectre 190-- find it quite zippy compared to the F-111... quick toggle response with much lighter input- I can finally spiral out from under!... good flare power.....'course, I only got 7 jumps on it before I misjudged a landing and broke my "good" leg... Brokeneagle. I'm really very gentle, no matter what my kung-fu teacher says... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spectrejumper 0 #4 December 19, 2001 QuoteHi,I'm considering a used Spectre 210 for my first canopy.My question: does anyone have experience jumping the Spectre at low wing loadings? My exit weight would be 185-190 lbs, giving a wing loading of ~0.9. Will the Spectre still be enjoyable at this loading?I know that I should be test jumping the canopy, but unfortunately this will not be possible. I will therefore have to rely on the advice that I can obtain from you and other people...Thanks!/ MartinThe Spectre is a great choice for a first canopy. I put 400 jumps on my Spectre 210 before I downsized. According to PD's website, 189 pounds is in the 'novice' category for a Spectre 210. You didn't mention how many jumps you have, or what you've been jumping up to this point, but I doubt you'd be disappointed with the Spectre.Mike D-23312"It's such a shame to spend your time away like this...existing." JMH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #5 December 20, 2001 I've flown Spectres loaded at 1.0:1 up to 1.15:1 (ish) and I love them. Openings are slow, smooth and on heading, it is fun to fly, and imho it is the easiest canopy out there to get a soft stand up landing out of, especially at wingloadings around 1.0:1.But it depends on what you are looking for out of a canopy. While the Spectre can be "swooped" it takes a pretty good canopy pilot to get a really good swoop out of it. If the swoopy landing is your thing you may want to look at a nine cell (Sabre, Safire, Sabre II, Hornet) instead. You'll have fun with any of those canopies at the wingloading you're considering as well.imho you're very smart to be choosing a light loading for your first canopy. A couple of things to think about though. When flying a lightly loaded canopy you are more likely to be "backing up" on final if the winds are high; backing up is no fun, while you're flying a bigger canopy decide to stay on the ground when the dz puts students on wind hold. Also, the Spectre opens pretty slow; be ready for that if you're used to canopies that open in 500 feet or less.pull and flare,lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #6 December 20, 2001 "If the swoopy landing is your thing you may want to look at a nine cell (Sabre, Safire, Sabre II, Hornet) instead."Hmmmph.....arms crossed with a slight scowl.....nobody ever recommends the Silhouette. I love mine. Easy to pack, soft on-heading openings, zippy performance and great glide. I can get 20 feet across the ground with minimal effort on landing at 1.1:1. I've jumped it since #10 and I can attest to it's forgiveness. It's also more elliptical than the spectre (it also has a higher aspect ratio, closer to the stiletto) and I totally prefer it's performance over the spectre I jumped at 1:1. The Sabre2 is square, but I can say nothing more since I have never jumped one.Someday I am gonna start a Silhouette fan club, but it just may be me alone in the basement of a church drinking coffee, staring at the clock and thinking about taking a smoke break soon. peace,mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #7 December 20, 2001 Quote I'm considering a used Spectre 210 for my first canopy. Great canopy choice.. The Spectre opens great, flies very nice, and lands well.. Spectre's have pretty low pack volumes, so you can easily get a 210 into a container built for a 190ZP main, probably even one built for a 170ZP main, which will allow you to later downsize mains with the same container.. I have a little over 100 jumps on the Spectre - from wing loadings as low as 0.9:1(only a couple at this loading, though) to as high as 1.65:1.. It flies great at all loadings - but, of course, the higher you load it, the more "sporty" it is.. At lighter loadings, the difference in glide ratio between a Spectre and a comparable 9 cell is barely noticeable, if at all.. At higher loadings, the Spectre glides about as well as an aerodynamic brick.. On the Spectre I owned(which I loaded at 1.5:1) I was ALWAYS on the rear risers unless I pulled right over the peas.. Swoops were great.. Landings were soft and slow.. I have heard others complain that the glide at lower wing loadings was not good, but it seemed ok to me..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff 0 #8 December 20, 2001 QuoteThe Sabre2 is square....Actually, it's tapered, slightly elliptical, or whatever you want to call it.Geoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil 0 #9 December 20, 2001 I have a Spectre 150 loaded at 1.2 and while I had to get my reserve repacked had to fly a rig with a 170 in it. No Problem everything positive that has been said above I would sign to. If it's a new one I wish you happy packing jobs - if it's a used one - let it be checked by a pro rigger. After that it's just fun fun fun.go and enjoyblue onesPhil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #10 December 20, 2001 and it's not square... cord doesn't equal span Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mre 0 #11 December 20, 2001 Thank you all for your advice!I just bought the rig with the Spectre in it; as Aviatrr pointed out it packs into a rather small container; a Javelin J3, which is intended for 170 ZP mains.I am yet to jump it, but judging from your comments and those of others, it seems like I made the right choice./ Martin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #12 December 20, 2001 the actual specs on PDs website don't reflect that. The chord is one measurement, while the rest of the canopies have two numbers in the chord column. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #13 December 20, 2001 QuoteSomeday I am gonna start a Silhouette fan club, but it just may be me alone in the basement of a church drinking coffee, staring at the clock and thinking about taking a smoke break soon. Part of the reson no one ever recomends the Silhouette is that it was designed as a transition canopy and it really does'nt have any proformance compaired to the much superiour Spectre or even the original swooping canopy, the Saber.What little proformance and glide a Silhouette has, pales compaired to what a Spectre at the same loading is like. The Sihouette is a good student canopy, and a great canopy to learn to pack on, but other wise, unless you really wanted an F111 with a longer lifespan, I would'nt ever recommend one to anyone.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #14 December 20, 2001 Really??I can't see the superiority of the Spectre--both in flying it and on paper. It's all ZP, but that's where you lose me. I hated the Spectre. Crap openings and flew around like a volkswagen at datona. Maybe it was just me. I am a freak, after all.peace,mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #15 December 20, 2001 Mike, how many jumps did you put on each canopy and how many jump altoghter do you have? Coming right off student status, a Spectre is a totally different canopy compaired to what you are used to and you have'nt learned its full potential yet, a Shilloette on the hand is more like what you have been jumping and you can easly get the proformance out of it that you will have to work for on a Spectre. A Spectre can do anything that a 9 cell can do and it does somethings better.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #16 December 20, 2001 Phree,I jumped a Spectre 230 at 1:1 for jumps 3-9. It sniveled forever, usually as it spun in some line twists. It was sluggish (based on the Silhouette as a reference) in turns and the desent rate was so much higher, if I didn't flare at exactly the right time, I would be planted firmly onto the earth's surface.I have been jumping the Silhouette at 1.1:1 since #10 (now 22 overall). I think it simply kicks ass in flight. It doesn't take much to get a nice surf out of it either.mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #17 December 20, 2001 Thats definately the ONLY time I have ever heard a complaint about a Spectre. Yours is not the typical experience."Carb Heat On....Carb Heat On.....Carb Heat On..."-Phil Polstra Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #18 December 20, 2001 I didn't complain until I got my silhouette. Maybe I got a bad Spectre and a great Silhouette.mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #19 December 20, 2001 QuoteI jumped a Spectre 230 at 1:1 for jumps 3-9. It sniveled foreverThat's what the Spectre does. That's one of the things that helped to make it a popular canopy. Get a few more jumps under your belt, you'll be begging for a canopy with a nice snivel.Quoteusually as it spun in some line twists.This is usually attributed to bad packing or bad body position. Given that you jumped the Spectre from jumps 3-9 it wouldn't surprise me if bad body position were to blame for the line twists.QuoteIt was sluggish (based on the Silhouette as a reference) in turns and the desent rate was so much higher, I can't speak about the sluggishness of the canopy. When I flew the Spectre I thought it was pretty responsive actually. As for the decent rate being higher than that of your Silhouette , well, that's just what a typical of that design of canopy. They tend to sink more than they glide, while a 9 cell tends to glide more than it sinks. There are exceptions.Quoteif I didn't flare at exactly the right time, I would be planted firmly onto the earth's surface.That happens with every canopy. It's just a question of finding the 'right time'.Help with cancer research here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #20 December 20, 2001 a snivel is one thing. I have looked up, stared, prayed, then eyeballed and grabbed my cutaway handle, looked up to see the slider start to make it's way down. I thought it was excessive. The line twists seemed to start as the bag was above my head--very well could have been body position, but I must have cleared it up just before I got the Silhouette.The Silhouette, when womari packed, I can tell if I added an extra turn in the tail as it deploys. It is that predictable. It does snivel enough to make the deployment soft, but I don't have to change my drawers after getting down. peace mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #21 December 20, 2001 "I have looked up, stared, prayed, then eyeballed and grabbed my cutaway handle, looked up to see the slider start to make it's way down'A lot of people tell the same story. It seems 1000ft from pitch to a flying canopy is pretty normal. The line twists can be induced by an inumerable amount of variables. The biggest thing is to be able to watch the canopy deploy. I can tell whether or not I am going to have problems long before my canopy fully inflates. So....the amount of snivel is no big deal..."Carb Heat On....Carb Heat On.....Carb Heat On..."-Phil Polstra Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #22 December 20, 2001 Quotea snivel is one thing. I have looked up, stared, prayed, then eyeballed and grabbed my cutaway handle, looked up to see the slider start to make it's way down. I thought it was excessive. If you think a Spectre snivel is bad, I'll send you some video of my Cobalt deployments. I demand that my canopys open soft since I'm jumping a Camera and the Spectre was a constast 900 foot openings that would let me lookup, see the snivel, find both handles, then look back up and see the slider start moving. My Cobalt, is even better! Look up, see the slider, look at the handles, look back up and the slider is still up high, look for traffic in front, look back up and the slider starts moving. All of this is in less then 800 feet. The Cobalt opens just as soft if not softer then the Spactre but thats another thread.If you don't want to waste anytime in a snivel I'd sugest looking for a Sabre with a small slider. That will make you long for a Spectre again after a few jumps a day.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff 0 #23 December 20, 2001 Quotethe actual specs on PDs website don't reflect that. The chord is one measurement, while the rest of the canopies have two numbers in the chord column. uh? 2 figures for chord here.Geoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff 0 #24 December 20, 2001 Quoteand it's not square... cord doesn't equal spanI didn't say it was square. I was quoting someone who did and disagreeing with them.Geoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #25 December 20, 2001 We were talking about the sabre. It is not tapered according to the website. The Spectre is lightly tapered.mikeand if I mentioned square, please replace that word with non-tapered Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
