Pro-170 vs. Hornet

[MiataDRM 0]

I was wondering if anyone had experiences w/ "both" canopies? I've been jumping my friends pro-170 (flight concepts)...I love it in the air, but always hated the thought of landing it! I was wondering if the pro series is known for being less forgiving on toggle input when landing or if I'm just a bad pilot! (Come to think of it, the openings have always been harsh and I've tried packing it in various ways!) I have no problems when jumping a Hornet-190 w/ 50 jumps w/ stand-up landings! Any input?
Blue Sky & Semper Fi
Majdi

[Kirils 1]

I've jumped Flight Concepts 9 cells maybe 35 times (espirit, manta, maverone and a griffin) I don't know if these are really different from the Pro series. I do know that every one of these canopies opened hard. One opening on an espirit caused kidney damage! Is there really an issue here? Jump the Hornet...jump the Hornet...
Merry Christmas!
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[Watcher 0]

Ok, gonna do this agian, lost my first draft cause IE crashed.
Ok to start off i do not have expirence on a Hornet, heard alot of good things about it but never flown it.
Anyways the GaTech Parachute club we have 2 Pro 170s (and for everyone else these are nothing like the 9 Cells or 7 Cells that they market) I flew both of them from jumps 13-125. Did not stand up 2 landings, one of those was a night jump i landed with no lights. The openings i think in all those jumps i had 1 firm opening, otherwise very very soft and snively, in the neighborhood of 800 ft but damn dependable, i trashed packed that a few times and came out ok every single time. Normally i would do a std Pro pack, no rolls on the nose, one roll on the tail. The landings ive heard alot of people say it has no flare, and that its a dog of a canopy. Well these are the same ppl i have found that dont like flareing a Safire, and alot learned on F111 canopies or Sabre (dont know if there is a relation just a general observation). Flight Concepts is a Crw dog company. So its not gonna be the easiest flare to learn at first. You CANNOT stab this canopy, itll drop you on your ass, then youll go in whining how this canopy has no flare. Its a long slow flare and finishes deep. I found that to plane out the canopy was to bring down to about mid upper arm. This is serveral inches lower than a typical PD canopy. Then the surf is from there to your hips maybe alittle lower, then finish off. Fly the Canopy to its STALL point, and itll give you a great landing everytime, maybe not a blistering 200 foot swoop, but a nice 50. Ive seen some club members try it out and put it on their ass time and time agian, they are either no flareing fully and decide to land on their ass or run like hell. Or they stab it and the canopy drops them. We also have members right off AFF status flying the Pro 190 flawlessly, and will soon move down to the 170 (or have already due to higher wind days and needing more penetration). My advice is practice flareing up high, feel the canopy point where it starts the plane out, feel the pressure it takes to keep it level and at what point your at when you stall the canopy. Also you mentioned being less forgiving on toggel input, well the Pro is a High performance canopy, it might be a square but there is a reason they put that 100 jump minumum on the lable that everyone ignores, you have to be sysmetrical, and get the leg straps tight. Might consider getting a bigger slider, i know that the ones we have are pretty big.
Hope that helps alittle. Im not for either canopy, although i was gonna buy a pro 120 before i decided to get my 120 nitron (cant beat 950 for a brand spanking new elliptical canopy) course the Nitron has so much flare power its insane. I think if i was gonna buy Pisa, it would be a Heatwave, i know a few that swear by them.
Jonathan

[PhreeZone 20]

Quote

I think if i was gonna buy Pisa, it would be a Heatwave, i know a few that swear by them.

Right, but the Heatwave is by far not a beginners canopy. The Heatwave is a Stiletto class canopy that demands respect. Being a little off on even a lightly loaded Heatwave is going to leave marks. I'm yet to jump a Nitro, but watching 200+ Heatwave landings this year gave me a whole new respect for the canopy. It flys as nice if not nicer then a Stiletto, but I would'nt recommend the canopy to anyone unless they were the caliber of pilot that I would recommend a Stiletto, Crossfire, or Vengence. I'd rather point people interested in PISA canopies to the Hornet for a couple of hunderd jumps. If they are just looking for the ease of packing that is on the Pisa canopys then I point them to the Tri or what I've been doing more lately, a Cobalt.
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[MiataDRM 0]

Thanks for the reply. That helps a lot. However, I might be guilty for stabbing at my toggles. After so many crash landings, I've gotten paranoid w/ that canopy (pro 170) that I spaz on the landing! I've jumped the Hornet 190 & 170 and have no problems. On another note, I didn't know about the 100 jump min recommendation...no one ever said anything. Thanks for the info.
Blue Sky & Semper Fi
Majdi

[Watcher 0]

Its printed on the Orange lable that should be on the canopies tail right there with Maximum weight on the canopy.
Np on the advice, get rid of that stab and you should be fine, just dont psych yourself out.
Jonathan

[Watcher 0]

Like ive mentioned in other post the Nitro is a Stiletto class canopy with a very similar planeform. Little less sensitive to harness input, but has more radical toggle turns and Dives alot better, and has many many times more flare.
As for the heatwave, aside from Pisa being a cheaper costing canopy, ive seen many people that like the responsiveness of an elliptical but dont want the speed on landing, so they jump a 1.1 or 1:1 wingloading to get a better performance but more forgiveness on landing, the heatwave can perform like this as the Stilletto does. The Nitro makes this alittle harder cause the biggest size is a 150. Id place the nitro closer to a Samarui in performance and above the Stiletto but not by much.
Jonathan

[magicmx5 0]

I don't have any experience with the pro, but I have a new Hornet 190. I haven't had a chance to jump it yet due to the weather, but I'll be posting as soon as I get a general impression from it. I plan on packing a few different ways to get the best openings.
Does anyone have any experience with Hornet 190 packing that works best...
-pro vs psycho
-folding/not folding the nose
...etc
Thanks

[Floater 0]

I've found that on the Hornet it really doesn't matter what you do with the nose, it opens fine. I've rolled it, stuffed it, and just left it open and haven't really notice a difference. I normally pro pack but, when I get a chance I want to get someone to show me how to psycho pack since I'm stuffin a 170 into a container sized for a 150.
Lee

[MiataDRM 0]

I just got my Hornet-170 a few days ago!!!! I jumped it Saturday at Orange...it's much more fun & smooth to fly than the pro-170. I still need to work on my landings, but they were still more gentle than the pro-170. Having a new canopy has rekindled my love for packing (well, kind of). :-)
Blue Sky & Semper Fi
Majdi

[in2falling 0]

Best way to pack a Hornet is standard pro pack, roll the nose 4 and 4, push the nose into the pack job, clover leaf the slider and pull the front of the slider out over the nose. Do this and it will open sweet every time.

[flow 1]

I have Hornet 150 and I do pro pack it normally. Found out that it is
super easy to pack compared to the PD zp canopies, as the fabric is
much less slippery.
Btw, as I bought my Hornet used, and got no manual with it, what kind
of an packing method does PISA recommend for Hornet?
And is that slider supposed to be that freaking large or has the
previous user installed some tandem canopys slider into it? :)

[MiataDRM 0]

I bought my Hornet-170 used, and it came w/ a HUGE bright pink colored slider (ehhmm...Magenta)! :-) I guess that's partly why we get soft openings (over-all). I don't know if PISA changed anything on the hornet over time, my DOM is 2000. I didn't get a manual either. Do a search and you'll find a few threads about packing a hornet. By the book (as I'm told) it doesn't require any special treatment; although some still like to roll the nose.
Blue Sky & Semper Fi
Majdi

[magicmx5 0]

My new Hornet 190 came with a manual. According to it, PISA says to PRO pack. As far as the nose goes, it says to stuff the center cell and roll the other halves inward toward each other. And yes, the slider is supposed to be that big!

[AggieDave 6]

I'm jumping a Hornet 190 and I always Pro-Pack, rolling the 4 cells from the sides then stuffing them in the center cell. I also roll the tail a little bit. I've had nothing but really nice soft openings, although they take a little bit to open. AggieDave '02
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Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[Paraloco 0]

Hi Fellas :)
this is my first posting here, though i follow'd it for a while, this comunity of Skydivers worldwide is the greatest group of people in the sports and im honoured to be part of it, Thanks to all :)

I have a Hornet-190, did my first 2 jumps with her last weekend
i was curious, yes! my Slider is big and those 2 openings were very soft, she's nice and soft, but... for example, this is just what i've felt... very rookie A-cup and just 2 jumps with her:

at about 5000 felt nice and easy, decided to try turns, little by little harder and harder... eventually got a bank angle quasi-horizontal, my heart started pumpin' 400 bit/min and started letting go very slowly back to normal...
the altitude loss didnt seem noticeable on my altimeter, it moved very little... i might be mistaken

I'm eager to explore my baby's performance and safe limits envelope
thanks.

Paraloco

Love the smell of jet fuel in the morning :)