Sabre Canopies

[jules 0]

Does anyone else have a Sabre 170 that repeatedly spanks them on opening? and what have you done to fix it...
My finance previously had a Sabre 190 that on occasion I could get to snivel for 1500ft (me packer, no jumper) but now on the 170 its smack smack smack.
We know another jumper that has a Sabre that used to open hard but after getting a new slider has had no problems since. We've tried talking to the local dealer and they're fairly convinced its the packing technique!!

[FallinWoman 1]

How are you packing it?
Anne
What do I make? Teachers make a difference. What do you make?

[FallinWoman 1]

I ask cuz I was getting spanked by my 190 until someone taught me how to pack it. I flat pack it, rolling the four outer nose cells nad stuffing them into the center on each side, then rolling the crap out of the whoel thing. Then I roll the flaked tail, so far as to undo the first flake. I uses mini-bands on my microlines, except for the first two locking stows and the last certering stow...
I get great on-heading, snively openings.
Anne
What do I make? Teachers make a difference. What do you make?

[jules 0]

I pro pack it exactly the same way I packed the 190, but with the added step of rolling the slider into the tail...I also pack for a lot of other jumpers with sabres the same way, various sizes and haven't had any complaints....unless they're all too polite... >:)

[AggieDave 6]

I used to jump a Sabre and I'm jumping a Hornet right now. What I do to soften my openings is Pro-Pack it, but I roll 4 cells on the left together and stuff that into the center cell and roll the 4 cells on the right together and stuff that into the other side of the center cell. I quarter the slider normally and do everything else normally, but I take the tail and roll that a bit too. I've yet to have a hard opening with that (knock on wood) although, I do get collapsed end cells on opening a bit. No big deal, just pull the rear risers a bit and they inflate, though.
Also, have you considered that you may have your rubber bands too loose, causing the lines to dump faster then they should. Maybe you should have a rigger glance at it and see...
Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton-

[jules 0]

The only thing with that is that I was told from day one by the CI not to roll the nose....obviously its a personal preference thing but I don't really wanna piss the CI off...he sends a lot of the new jumpers to me for tuition.... :)

[btucker 0]

I have a Y2K Sabre150 with 200 jumps. The darn thing started spanking me BAD! After abit, I finally worked it out - As my tracking improved, my flaring didn't.
ANY forward movement, even very slow ( i.e. walking speed ) will spank the crap out of me.
In a 4way; I track, flare, stop hard and enjoy the 500 - 600ft openings. Similarly solos ( with no tracking ) are a joy for openings.
Big ways; Ughhh. I track, I track, I track, I flare as much as I can before it's dump time and get spanked. I don't do many big ways!
Benno
PS: I pack exactly as per the manual - i.e. "fold" the outside cells into the centre of the nose and roll the tail. Quarter slider ( not rolled into tail ). Tight milspec rubber bands - pull force checked against a fish scale.

[riggerrob 643]

To reiterate what other posters said: roll both the nose and the tail.
Opinions vary as to how much rolling the nose softens openings, but rolling the tail definitely helps.
It does not change how the tail inflates, but rolling the tail helps keep the slider at the top of the lines until it catches air.
By the same token, tight rubber bands also help keep the slider at the top of the lines until line stretch.
Even a tiny bit of slack between the slider and the slider stops will spank you!
Remember that first generation Z-P parachutes do not open much harder than their F-111 predecessors, they are just unforgiving of sloppy packing. For example, a guy recently gave us an Ariel 150 because he couldn't stand any more hard openings. I packed it exactly like a Sabre a dozen times and had nothing but comfortable openings. Too bad the dude never learned how to pack!

[Geoff 0]

I recommend you don't simply rely on changing your packing technique.
Better packing may improve things for dozens or hundreds of jumps, but it's not reliable and you'll probably still get spanked once in a while. There are many of us who have injuries (fortunately minor in my case) due to fast-opening Sabres.
A larger slider slowed the openings dramatically on my 1999 Sabre 135. PD provided one 2 inches larger chordwise, but the same size spanwise. Many people have 'pocket' sliders fitted to much the same effect. Ask a rigger.
Hope this helps.
Geoff

[billvon 2,998]

>Does anyone else have a Sabre 170 that repeatedly spanks them on opening? and what have you done to fix it...
Took an old slider from a Sabre 230 to fix the openings on my 150. Worked like a charm.
>My finance previously had a Sabre 190 that on occasion I could get to snivel for 1500ft (me packer, no jumper) but now on the 170 its
>smack smack smack.
Not all Sabres are the same. They changed slider sizes on all their Sabres about six years ago, to slow down openings. In addition, it seems like really minor changes to canopy trim have dramatic effects on opening - like brake line length.
>We know another jumper that has a Sabre that used to open hard but after getting a new slider has had
>no problems since. We've tried talking to the local dealer and they're fairly convinced its the packing technique!!
Well, it may well be. The easiest way to find out is get a professional packer to pack it for a while. If the problem goes away, it was packing.
-bill von

[beckrj 0]

Slider Pocket!!!
I have a sabre 170 loaded around 1.2 and have not yet had a hard opening. (knock on wood). My canop has a slider pocket and I role the nose 4 times each side of the center cell. I also roll the tail but not so tightly. I now have 1000ft+ openings. I am actually going to roll the nose less because the openings at the moment are too soft. All in all the slider pocket really helps.
You could also try to go a size smaller on your pilot chute. Just my thoughts.

[skybytch 273]

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stuff that into the center cell

Not a good idea. You can get smooth openings out of a Sabre without stuffing anything into the center cell. You're putting a lot of strain on the center cell ribs; could cause damage to them at some point.

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have you considered that you may have your rubber bands too loose, causing the lines to dump faster then they should.

A very good point and worth looking into.
pull and flare,
lisa
--

[PhreeZone 20]

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I now have 1000ft+ openings.

Taken from BillVon's post on this same topic.....
That is extremely unlikely. Would you really let a canopy streamer for 8 seconds or so without doing something about it? That's a very, very long time - watch a clock for 8 seconds and then imagine staring at a streamering canopy for that long. I don't doubt it could happen, but I do doubt that most skydivers would ride a streamer for that long.
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[Jimbo 0]

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watch a clock for 8 seconds and then imagine staring at a streamering canopy for that long. I don't doubt it could happen, but I do doubt that most skydivers would ride a streamer for that long.

I think there's probably a difference between a streamer and a canopy that's opening slowly. There's more to any deployment than just streamer -> open, there are lots of stages in between. My guess is that the confusion comes from everyones idea of what constitutes an open canopy. Is it out of the bag? Is it canopy partially open? Is it canopy mostly open and slider coming down? Is the canopy not open until the end cells inflate and the slider is all the way down?
Anyhow - it's not accurate to suggest that during an 8 second opening that the canopy was 'streamering' for the full 8 seconds.

[alan 1]

OK, here we go again. go back and do a search for this:
Re: Spectre & low wing loading? [re: alan]
In this thread we have had a claim of 1500' snivels and another of 1000' openings. A snivel is generally regarded as from the time the canopy leaves the bag until the slider starts to come down. An opening is usually defined as pitch to slider 2/3 down on a flying canopy. If you read my posts in the referenced thread, you can see what John LeBlanc and I had to say about opening distances in general, meaning they apply to the Sabre as well. "Streamer" is generally used in the context of a malfunction and would probaly be accurate in most cases of describing a canopy that "snivels" for 1500' or takes 1000' "to open". Even a canopy that opens slowly will rarely take a 1000' to open. But then again, the guy who designs and tests them may not know what he is talking about.
alan

[lazerq3 0]

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"Streamer" is generally used in the context of a malfunction

Thats what I was taught.........Quote from "breakaway" If you look up and DO NOT see your slider, you have a streamer. This malfuntion is non correctable...you must cutaway and pull your reserve!"
They then go on to show the diff between a snivel (slow opening ) and a streamer. You can clearly see theat with a snivel you will see your slider and 4 seperate line groups. With the streamer you see nothing but a ball of shit dancing around. That is what I got out of it
jason

[billvon 2,998]

>I think there's probably a difference between a streamer and a canopy that's opening slowly.
There's a very big difference at the end. They can look similar in the beginning though.
>Anyhow - it's not accurate to suggest that during an 8 second opening that the canopy was 'streamering' for the full 8 seconds.
Well, OK. I have a video on my malfunctions tape where the canopy is trying to open (slider a few inches down, all four line groups visible, canopy flapping and trying to inflate) but it never does. He rides it for about 5 seconds and chops it. Would you really not call that a streamer?
-bill von

[ftrain 0]

Ask 100 people about how to keep a Sabre from slamming and you'll likely get 99 different answers. So take this with a grain of salt:
I used a brand new Sabre 170 (dom ~98) for about 200 jumps, loaded at a forgiving 1.1 to 1. Never had any of the legendary Sabre slammers, but did have a few stingers. I expermented with different packing techniques. (Had to with that slippery PD zp material!) The one I ended up with, for reasons of opening consistency and packing speed, was a standard pro-pack, quartering the slider with lots of material pulled out over the nose, and roll the shit out of the tail. Seemed to work and, like I said above, never made me see stars.

[diver123 0]

Hey Robert, how's the old hog flying??? I can't tell you how much I'm dying to get some jumps in, but I still have to wait for my new gear!!! Have fun with the rig...
P.S. You all may have different opinions on what a snivel is and such, but I guarantee you that this canopy he speaks of will and has taken about a 1000' to open...
"pull high! It's lower than you think..."

[beckrj 0]

Randy! Good to hear from you.
Those 1000ft openings are still there and I am actually working on shortening them up a little though.
Doing some coaching jumps tomorrow so I can keep up with you next time we jump together. ;-) When will I see you at the DZ?

[diver123 0]

Let's go tomorrow!
"pull high! It's lower than you think..."

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

Psycho pack it
Support the cause - do a skydive(r)

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