Can you verify that a reserve-pack is good?

[justinbuss 0]

Ok, there's a story on our DZ that one of our members had a mal at a different DZ (he jumps a Vortex). He had the reserve repacked at that DZ. When it came time to repack that reserve, his regular rigger pulled the pin and nothing came out.
The rigger peeled one flap open. Still nothing.
He peeled the next flap open. Still nothing.
When he peeled the third flap open the pilot chute finally popped out.
On inspecting the closing loop, it was discovered that the guy who packed the reserve after the mal had used a tandem closing-loop, and this had caused the problem.
Now, what I'd like to know is if there is some way of knowing or checking if the reserve pack-job on my rig will work.
Does it just boil down to using good riggers and trusting their handy-work? How do you find out if a rigger is good? How do you know to trust them or not?
Sometimes it's easy to be myself.
Sometimes it's better to be somebody else.

[riggerrob 643]

It is easy to spot an incorrect closing loop.
Just peel open the pin cover and stare at the pin.
Sounds like he used a very fat, tandem main closing loop.
Please provide more details.
It takes a rigger to identify a bad pack job from the outside.
The good news is that you have to be a really bad packer to prevent a square parachute from opening. Look at all the millions of sloppy main pack jobs that open every year!

[justinbuss 0]

Can't provide much more detail.
Yes, they did use a tandem main closing loop, but that's not really my concern. I just wanted to know if I (as someone who knows nothing about packing reserves) could check my rig once the reserve has been repacked for signs that may indicate that the job was done correctly.
I find sometimes it's easy to be myself.
Sometimes I find it's better to be somebody else. - DMB

[flyboy62000 0]

I don't know of a way to tell whether the pack job inside a closed rig is good. If you want to see how your reserve has been packed just stick around the loft when the rigger packs it, you'll get to see exactly what was done. Who knows you might learn something by watching. Most riggers I know would be happy to have you watch them pack and show you what they are doing. It will make you more knowledgeable about your gear if nothing else.
Blue Skies,
Adam

[dmddave 0]

I had a similar problem with my rig which I had repacked last week. My rigger, who I know and trust told me that the last rigger who repacked my reserve did several things wrong, among them being and improperly routed rsl and bridle. He said after talking with the manufacturer, that my reserve could have probably resulted in a horseshoe if deployed with the rsl. He also said after finding these problems that he contacted the previous rigger and the previous rigger wouldn't claim responsibility for the pack job. My rigger said the previous guy was probably an old timer and not familiar with my gear... some consolation.

[Beachbum 0]

I'm still pretty new to all this, but shouldn't a rigger ask for the rig manual if he's not accustomed to it? I keep mine in my gear box for just such an ocassion, and it has been used!

[TEB6363 0]

You might just try and stay with one rigger you trust or talk to some people at a different DZ who know other riggers.
The only other thing I might add is to make sure you launch your reserve pilot chute on the ground when you drop your rig off for the next repack. When you go to one rigger and see a few good pilot chute launches from his work, it gives me a greater confidence. You can even have him lay the rig down and go through the entire deployment to check for any snags.
:::OK, Canopy is Open, No Traffic Around, .. Why are these "Extra" Lines Draping Down??, Damn!

[dmddave 0]

You're exactly right, a rigger should ask for a manual or ask the manufacturer if he is unsure, which is exactly what the rigger I know and trust did. Also, does anyone know if there is any kind of continuing education for riggers to deal with all the new gear being produced?

[PhreeZone 20]

The PIA symposiums are great resources for riggers to attend.
Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud... ~ Bush

[jbrasher 1]

It might be better to rotate your repacks between different riggers. We're all human and we all make mistakes.
It's finding out about them and being able to learn from them that counts.
Red, White and Blue Skies,
John T. Brasher D-5166

[Kris 0]

My rule if I have to use an unfamiliar rigger is to either watch him pack my reserve or to have watched him pack other reserves. I also talk to other jumpers about their work but make no mistake, riggers are people too and they can and have made mistakes. Your best defense is to know thy gear so that you have an understanding of what is and is not proper.
Also, my rig is a Mirage in an M4 size for a PD-160 or Dash-M 181 reserve. I have a rigger that can pack my re-inforced Tempo 210 and my CYPRES in the rig and the flaps are flat. If I give it to another rigger and the flaps are bulging then I know that there wasn't a great deal of finesse used and that he isn't familiar with the two tricks that are used on overstuffed Mirages like mine to make them functional yet look good. This falls under the "Know thy gear" category again.
Kris

[lazerq3 0]

.

Quote

I also talk to other jumpers about their work but make no mistake, riggers are people too and they can and have made mistakes

I think that just goes to prove that there is no guarenty in skydiving!!! We all like to trust our riggers and there work and for the most part it is all done accordingly but hey ,,shit happens and thats the respocibility we have to accept in this sport!!
jason

[rmsmith 1]

>Ok, there's a story on our DZ...
>The rigger peeled one flap open. Still nothing.
>He peeled the next flap open. Still nothing.
>When he peeled the third flap open the pilot
>chute finally popped out.
Well, it wasn't a JumpShack Racer!

[Cornholio 0]

This brings up a good point. Tell me if this should be in a thread by itself.
What about if coming off student status, you recently bought a used rig. I would assume that you would want to find rigger to recert your reserve... but how do you know WHO to trust to pack your reserve ?

[skycat 0]

Well having had to switch riggers several times due to the one I used to use moving and after a VERY uncomfortable pack job by another rigger.
Most important is finding a rigger who knows your rig. A rigger who jumps a racer know alot more about the racer and how to pack it than say a rigger who jumps a mirage. Also ask other jumpers who jump the same kind of rig you do, and who they use. Any rigger should be able to repack your rig, but if you are like me and have a tight harness and need a pack job that is almost perfect, you have to find a rigger who really knows the rig, and other jumpers are an excellent source for that information.
Kelli

[Cornholio 0]

That sounds like good advice, Kelli. Thanks!!
- Matt

[skycat 0]

Oh another thing is know your own gear, a rigger should have no problem letting you watch what they are doing as long as you don't touch anythnig. I do this every chance I can if possible. Check out the manufacturers web page, read everything you can about that type of rig, including the reserve packing instructions. Bring the rig manual with you, the rigger probably already has one, but something might have changed or been updated. Check the web page for service bullitins, that way you can ask the right questions of yoru rigger, such as, has SB 1001 been complied with?
Also, don't be scared to ask questions, such as if you have a vector II and freefly is there anything that can be done to keep the main flap shut, or how to check for wear on your gear. I know it wasn't until I started dating a rigger that I learned anything about my gear, and I know alot of people still don't know anything about their gear other than that they need to take it to a rigger ever 4 months.

[billvon 3,076]

>Now, what I'd like to know is if there is some way of knowing or checking if the reserve pack-job on my rig will work.
You can check a few things, depending on the rig. On my Reflex I can make sure the PC/poptop is correctly set, the closing loop is in good shape and is routed through the Cypres, the reserve pin is correctly set, the reserve bridle is stowed in approximately the right place, the RSL is routed correctly, the catapult is in about the right place, and the reserve pack job at least has the right bulk in the right places.
>Does it just boil down to using good riggers and trusting their handy-work?
Basically yes. You can watch them if you want, but without knowing how the pieces go together, that may or may not help you.
>How do you find out if a rigger is good? How do you know to trust them or not?
By getting to know them and their work. I sort of eliminated that worry by packing my reserve myself. I recommend doing this at least once, under the eyes of a competent rigger. Even if the packjob ends up hideous, you can always get him to repack it - and you will have learned a lot about your container and reserve.
-bill von

[pilotdave 0]

My rigger seems to have pretty much vanished (evicted from his house and the DZ, cell phone disconnected) so I'm getting my repack (due 3 days ago) done by a friend of mine that just got his riggers certificate a month ago or so. I laughed when he first asked me if he could do my repack (especially after he told me I'll have to buy a manual for him to do it), but after talking to some riggers about it I decided I'd let him go for it. He's packed another reflex with help before so theoretically he knows what he's doing. So, I ordered the manual from bomber mfg yesterday and it should be here next week I guess. Woulda been nice if my previous rigger (who i bought the rig from) had given me my manual, but I didn't care so much at that time because it was online. I'm kinda excited to pull my handles and get my first look at my reserve (this is the first repack). I don't even know what color it is.
Dave
http://www.skydivingmovies.com