bhenry 0 #1 February 22, 2002 Whoa people ! before anyone starts flaming me, I don't agree AT ALL with the subject of the post.This however seems to be the general attitude towards the Racer container at The Irish Parachute Club where I jump.My first new gear was a Racer Elite, and I put 500 jumps on it before getting a new rig which happened to be a Jav in order to match up gear with a 4 way team i was training with.I have had no luck selling this gear at our DZ even though it is in immaculate condition and going for 1,000 Euro (870 USD)http://gearforsale.barneyhenry.comFew people have racer containers at our DZ and I believe that the prevailing anti-racer attitude is blind ignorance on the most part.It is now at the stage that the developing freefly safety committee for our national organisation is deeming any/all containers which use velcro 'unsafe for freeflying', but amazingly at the same time they feel there is no need to bring in a mandatory AAD rule. This is basically because the people making these rules, the existing freeflying group at the DZ don't use racers, but not all of them currently have AAD's ! Brilliant, eh ?So folks - the only way to get informed and expert opinions on the issue of whether or not a Racer Elite or Power Racer is a safe container for freeflying is to come here, outside the tiny blindfolded community that is Irish Skydiving.All comments welcome,Barney Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff 0 #2 February 22, 2002 Deathtrap, no, but a racer wouldn't be my ideal choice for FF, mainly because of the Velcro and the vulnerable main flap. Plus personally I don't like poptops, but that's just me.As for AADs, this is a huge subject with a vast number of opinions, but I certainly don't find it 'amazing' that a DZ does not mandate AADs. Few DZs do mandate AADs, even for freeflying.You did say 'all comments welcome'!Geoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #3 February 22, 2002 Just look at the reviews on this site - they're quite good I think .... You shouldn't put a knife in the toaster - but you're an adult now !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhenry 0 #4 February 22, 2002 and the comments are welcome Geoff. It is refreshing to join a discussion group where you can actuall get feedback. We have a mailing list for the Irish Parachute Club, and although there are 150+ addresses subscribed to it, the only thing it is used for are "Can anyone give me a lift to the DZ this weekend" postings !Seriously though, I didn't mean to give the impression that AAD's should be mandatory (for freeflying or otherwise), but if AAD's aren't required, why then should a non-velcro rig be a requirement ?Like you said, once it's not unsuitable, it's a personal choice what people opt for, right ?But the mandatory AAD ruling is a growing development.Sweden is now requiring such a rule from March/AprilEmpuriabrava has already introduced it.The Australian Parachute Federation is working towards a staggered intro of a mandatory aad rule (for those not holding a 'D' license by Dec 2002)It is quite common to find this requirement on many German DZ's nowAnd we won't even get into the ongoing USPA battle on the subject !But, as long as it ain't a blanket ruling, then there should also be no blanket ruling for banning velcro containers from freeflying, Right ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #5 February 22, 2002 Racers are for old timers and belly fliers!!!!Freefliers jump Mirage and Voodoos!"I live to EFS!"Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhenry 0 #6 February 22, 2002 I'd love to see what Jimmy Trantor would say to that ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #7 February 22, 2002 I sit fly all the time.. I don't do a whole lot of head down. I must admit that as the velcro started to wear my sit flying became less frequent. My rig is at jumpshack right now getting the tuck tab mod done on it.. So no more velcro.. I didn't really mind it all that much anyways. The racer is very comfortable, it is failsafe "look it up", and the reserve time is the fastest out there, not to mention the price.. I like my racer. I like the customer support I get from Nancy and John at jumpshack. I have known John for years now and there isn't a whole lot he won't do for his customers.RhinoBlue Skies and Smooth Rides!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #8 February 22, 2002 Quote Freefliers jump Mirage and Voodoos! Here we go ..... You shouldn't put a knife in the toaster - but you're an adult now !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #9 February 22, 2002 Who's Jimmy Trantor? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #10 February 22, 2002 bhnery,Now, now.You know that supressing your emotions leads to high blood pressure, ulcers, etc.Far better to let your feelings out.Tell us how you really feel.Banning Velcro, but not making Cypri mandatory sounds incredibly biased.I could understand banning Velcro that is more than 300 jumps or 3 years old, but that is a maintenance issue.A Racer would not be my first choice, but they work well when properly maintained.I could understand banning some of the Racer clones, like 2-pin Teardrops. Early Teardrops had terrible quality control! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhenry 0 #11 February 22, 2002 heheee RiggerRob - you read people well !Yea - I guess I'm pretty annoyed that a silly rule is being put in place for no reason other than out of ignorance and lack of research.I'm not a freeflyer myself, but I have researched the topic enough to know that a well maintained racer elite is not unsuitable for freeflying, even though it may not be a rig of choice for a lot of people.The first rig I ever owned was a 4th hand Chaser (SST racer copy) and it WAS a mess of a rig, practically held together with velcro bits all over the place......but a racer elite is a very different puppy to that, even if it does have some velcro.And in response to LawnDart21....Jimmy Trantor is the premier freefly coach in DeLand - and HE jumps a Racer ! Peace !Barney Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #12 February 22, 2002 I'm putting some FLAME in here..BAD! BAD! BAD! BAD!!!!!! Thing to name a thread.. BAD!!!Consider yourself Flamed!! lolRhinoBlue Skies and Smooth Rides!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff 0 #13 February 22, 2002 QuoteBut, as long as it ain't a blanket ruling, then there should also be no blanket ruling for banning velcro containers from freeflying, Right ?errr - Right, I think.... I agree that AADs should not be mandatory and I agree there should be no ban on velcro containers for freeflying. But don't see how one follows from the other.....maybe I'm thinking too hard....cheersGeoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unisyn 0 #14 February 22, 2002 In response to "I'd love to see what Jimmy Trantor would say to that !" I heard that Jimmy T has a Micron on order. The freefly school at DeLand is all getting Microns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #15 February 22, 2002 Racers ROCK!! lolBlue Skies and Smooth Rides!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #16 February 22, 2002 What is DeLand? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 37 #17 February 22, 2002 Quote I heard that Jimmy T has a Micron on order. I don't know about that, but I did talk to Jimmy about Racers before I bought mine. He said he loved the two Racers that he had because of their comfort factor, and he had never had a problem with the velcro risers or the protection of the closing pin. Since Jimmy is one of the freefly coaches at Deland, I figured there wasn't going to be anything that I would do on my Racer that he hadn't done already. I asked him if he was just telling me that because Jumpshack sponsored him, and he said no, other manufacturers wanted to sponsor him, but he liked the comfort of the Racer. Now, this was 2 months ago, and like I said, I know nothing about the Micron deal.Quote What is DeLand? More like a "where". It's a city north of Orlando, FL, that has a very well known dz in it called Skydive DeLand. It's been around for 20 years. You'll also find the headquarters for PD, Jumpshack, Relative Workshop, Mirage, Birdman Suits, Merlin Suits and Jump Bubble in DeLand. It's a pretty cool place to visit.AndreaThe brave may not live forever, but the timid may not live at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #18 February 23, 2002 yeah....Deland is nice...only if you know someone.....marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 25 #19 February 23, 2002 Barney - good seeing you around mate!Safe swoopsSangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #20 February 23, 2002 Quoteyeah....Deland is nice...only if you know someone.....Got to agree with you Marc, it definitely runs hot and cold. Went there one time and got on a 40-way just by asking. Another time, was manifested when some guy started dirt diving. When I asked to get in on it, he said, "We already have 13." Found out later the base never even got formed. Karma Justice. Just take it one day at a time, like the drunks do.flyhi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #21 February 25, 2002 What's a jump bubble? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #22 February 25, 2002 I was just kidding around with my questions......LOL.....I forgot it's hard to read sarcasm on here.......LOL........I've heard of Jimmy T, and know that Deland is a DZ..........hee hee hee........Racers are still for old folks and "Belly"ative Workers!!!! Yahoo!!!!!!!!! j/k!!!"I live to EFS"Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #23 February 25, 2002 Bellytive Workers.Good term.Remember to use the new term next time I am spouting off at the DZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 37 #24 February 26, 2002 Quote I heard that Jimmy T has a Micron on order. Speak of the devil, guess who I sat next to in the Skyvan on Sunday? Yep, Jimmy T, and I told him about this thread, and asked his opinion.He said he's had thousands of freefly jumps on his Racers, and he never had a problem with his toggles coming out. He said all you have to do is maintain your velcro. When I asked about the Vector that he was jumping in, he said it was purely a business decision because of the freefly school and sponsorship.AndreaThe brave may not live forever, but the timid may not live at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rayfive 0 #25 February 27, 2002 Andrea I know the brave may not live forever and freeflying with a racer means your brave and may not live forever I would rather be timid and safe with my micron and live a little longer hopefully. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
