Cutaway BOC

[christopherm 0]

Ok, right now I'm sitting at home and a thought crossed my head. Be ware these thoughts usually don't turn out that well.
I don't have very much experience in this sport but I pack at the DZ so I have heard a lot about a lot of different malfunction situations. A big one is the horseshoe. What is the first thing you must do when you find yourself having one?, THROW YOUR PC! Well I have heard that when experiencing a horseshoe malfunction, the pc can be hard to locate and may also be hard to pull out of the BOC.
So now I have sat at home and drawn some schematics for a BOC release. If the bag comes out before the pc, the BOC will just come off and the pc will be free. I'm looking for some advice on why this might work, why it might not work, pros, cons, has it been tried already, who should i go to with this idea if it does happen to be genius. But hey, i'm no rigger so some constructive criticism is expected.
-So, how hard is the ground?!

[PhreeZone 20]

On an AFF rig they have a Reserve side BOC release. Its is a cutaway cable and some handles and some fabric loops sewn in a nifty way. I'n not sure if this is what you are thinking of or not...
The problem with any system is the more parts you put in it, the more chances it has of screwing up the system. The more assembly required, the easier it is to screw up... just look at closing a rig. Manufactors are painting numbers on the flaps to prevent people from screwing them up. And thats only 4 parts at the max. The same with riser covers... I can't tell you how many times I've seen packers asemble riser covers improperly on some of the newer rigs. Scan in a copy of your idea and lets take a closer look at it to see if we can determine its worth...
Also, how are you going to tell if the bag is out before the PC and can the design hold up to freefly conditions? A flap mechinism probally not.... but scan it and let see....
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB

[AndyMan 7]

I have only two comments:
The first is that horseshoes are not necesarily cause by pilot chute in BOC. Horseshoes are frequently caused by pilot-chute around leg, for example. Consider this comment only semantics.
Secondly, there's a very easy solution for pilot-chute in BOC horseshoes, and that's proper packing of the pilot-chute. As a packer, it's up to you to pack the rig in a safe manner.
These techniques have been made popular by constant nagging from Brian Germain. The most important part is that the webbing of the pilot chute is pulled out of the apex before folding. It's a very simple procedure that almost guarantees that horseshoes will not happen. It's also critical that you not stow the excess bridle inside the pilot chute. It needs to be folded alongside the pilotchute. Both these techniques ensure that the pilot chute will be easily extracted from the BOC by a deploying main.
Either search the forums for specifics regarding this, or email Brian at brian@bigairsportz.com - I know as a fact he'll be more then happy to explain the procedure.
I'm concerned about your suggestion of an automatic BOC release system because it's adding complexity to the opening mechanics. Please feel free to post more detailed thoughts, though...
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
AIM: andrewdmetcalfe
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999

[christopherm 0]

Actually something similar to the AFF rig might be what is in order. I was thinking a two pronged cutaway cable that weaves the BOC to the container on both sides. The unique part is the mechanism that determines whether or not BOC is released. Something like if when the bag is released before the pc, a clamp will tighten down on the cable and pull it from the weave as the bag leaves the container, thus releasing the BOC. However, if you throw the pc, then the clamping mechanism is voided and the BOC stays intact.
I understand this adds complexity to the rigging of things and that might be the biggest concern. AndyMan might have said it all though, there might not even be a need for this if the pc was always packed correctly. Of course, horseshoes can still happen and are a very serious malfunction. (as opposed to those that aren't i suppose, I will try and get the pictures scanned this week, more comments please.
-So, how hard is the ground?!

[riggerrob 643]

First of all, a pilotchute packed neatly into a Spandex BOC is almost idiot-proof.
Secondly, if you want to get fancy, start by reviewing BOCs designed for AFF.
Thirdly, if you still want to get complex, review the Sorcerer BASE rig and the Advance skydiving rig. Hint, the Advance resembles a Javelin, but it is built in France and the reserve container is radically different.

[OmriMon 0]

we have a boc cutaway on our telesis 2 rigs at my dz, it works just like the cutaway mechanism on a wingsuit
"The longer you freefly - The longer your beard is"

[christopherm 0]

Ok, it was just a thought, i suppose the idea is already out there. Thanks for info all.
-So, how hard is the ground?!

[rmcvey 0]

[[[[[[[These techniques have been made popular by constant nagging from Brian Germain. The most important part is that the webbing of the pilot chute is pulled out of the apex before folding. It's a very simple procedure that almost guarantees that horseshoes will not happen. It's also critical that you not stow the excess bridle inside the pilot chute. It needs to be folded alongside the pilotchute. Both these techniques ensure that the pilot chute will be easily extracted from the BOC by a deploying main.]]]]]]]]]]]]
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
wait a minute, this sounds like the complete OPPOSITE to the way i pack my pc.
I lay it out flat bridle side up. S fold the bridle in one half of the laid out pc.
fold the pc in half, then fold the sides in until its a rectangular shape

fold it in half length ways ant pop it in.
am i going to die?
please explain a better way.

[PhreeZone 20]

Granted.. .your way works, but it also can cause a monkey fist to happen in the BOC. Brian tought me his way and its really slick, and only takes an extra second to do. The other method allows once anything pops out, it will not bunch up and cause the PC to be a hard pull. I think Skydiving Magazine ran something about it a few months ago.
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB

[AndyMan 7]

We caught one! WooHoo!

Quote

wait a minute, this sounds like the complete OPPOSITE to the way i pack my pc.
I lay it out flat bridle side up. S fold the bridle in one half of the laid out pc.
fold the pc in half, then fold the sides in until its a rectangular shape
fold it in half length ways ant pop it in.

To understand why this is bad, try the following. Fold up the pilot chute just like you described. Do everything normal until you're about to put it into the BOC. Don't. Instead, hold it all tightly all bunched up in your hand. Pull on the bridle.
Notice that as you pull the bridle, the pilot chute is bunching up. It's getting thicker.
Now imagine that the pilot chute is in your BOC. The main prematures, starts pulling on the bridle. The pilot chute start bunching up INSIDE the BOC. It bunches up to the point that it gets locked inside the BOC.
There ya got a horseshoe.
If you pack the way Brian teaches, as you pull out the bridle, the pilot chute not only doesn't bunch up, it actually gets thinner! Given another premature main, the pilot chute will quickly extract from the BOC, resulting in simply a premature opening.
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
AIM: andrewdmetcalfe
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999

[in2falling 0]

You know I have the greatest idea on a new deployment system that that I have been brain storming about for the last few months that would almost eliminate horseshoe malfunctions or early deployment and was going to share it here today. But as I was typing I said shit why not patent it first and see if I can get a container mfgs to bite$$$! Anyone got any advice on the design patent process? I have a shit load of attorney firms that I do computer work for so I am going to hit them up.

[wildblue 7]

Quote

Brian tought me his way and its really slick,

Time for another demonstration video by Phree?
Never argue with stupid people.They just drag you down 2 their level & beat you with experience

[PhreeZone 20]

Alright.... After I get off work tonight I'll Toss up another video showing how Brian taught me to fold the PC. Anyone got webspace, like 5-10 megs that don't care if they get bombarded once I put this up? The last time hosting it on my own home webserver was'nt the best of Ideas....
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB

[AndyMan 7]

Yeah, send it to me... I'll put it up.
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
AIM: andrewdmetcalfe
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999

[rendezvous 0]

now ! I would love to see that.

[flyingferret 0]

Yeah, I am interested in seeing this. I have always packed my bridle inside, and always heard there is no 'right' way to pack a PC.
malachi

[billvon 2,996]

>But as I was typing I said shit why not patent it first and see if I can get a container mfgs to bite$$$!
>Anyone got any advice on the design patent process? I have a shit load of attorney firms that I
>do computer work for so I am going to hit them up.
I'd say don't bother. Patents just mean you'll be slightly more succesful at suing someone who uses your idea. They are expensive, take a long time, and don't offer great protection. There's a common misconception that can be summed up as "have an idea, patent it, and make a million dollars" but I've found that there is very little difference between that process and "have an idea, make a million dollars."
-bill von

[PhreeZone 20]

Agreed... just talk to Brian Germain about the airlocks.... as his wife told me at Christmas.. Patent is a bad word in their house. They are not worth the hassle in this small of a market... Now if you were to patent electricity.. or air...
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB

[Jayboz 0]

Quote

These techniques have been made popular by constant nagging from Brian Germain. The most important part is that the webbing of the pilot chute is pulled out of the apex before folding. It's a very simple procedure that almost guarantees that horseshoes will not happen. It's also critical that you not stow the excess bridle inside the pilot chute. It needs to be folded alongside the pilotchute. Both these techniques ensure that the pilot chute will be easily extracted from the BOC by a deploying main.

This is the way I was taught to pack a pilot chute. The added bonus I like about this method is the webbing cannot be seperated from the apex unless the PC is cocked. So if you pack your pilot chute this way, there should be no doubt as to whether you cocked the pilot chute or not.
Of course, the little blue window helps too.

[larry 0]

Quote

I'll Toss up another video showing how Brian taught me to fold the PC.

Just wondering if you had time to do this? I keep looking back hoping to see it 'cause I too was told the excess bridle goes in the PC.
Larry
Error in REALITY.SYS - Reboot Universe? ([Y]/N) _

[PhreeZone 20]

Its a pain in the rear to try and film with one hand and pack with the other. I've decicded to do a webpage with my version of what Brian taught me in stills. I've changed it a bit to suit my style, but I'll work on it a bit more tonight....
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB