billvon 2,998 #26 April 16, 2002 >Personally, I would agree that assuming a parachute is in LIKE NEW condition>(and, of course, that it is certified), then it would be OK to use it as a reserve. Would you pack a PD reserve with 16 deployments on it and 35 repacks altogether, assuming it looked used but airworthy? (i.e. some dirt and stains, no evidence of damage.) Would your decision be changed if the reserve had a ZP topskin?-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
polarbear 1 #27 April 16, 2002 Good question...sort of puts a spin on my "like new" requirement.I am a slow, methodical rigger who spends much too much time inspecting. Having said that, I would say that if the reserve passed my inspection, and I was aware of the history of the reserve, I would feel alright packing it. As far as the permeability of the fabric, I would have to consider the potential pilot of the reserve. If it was going to be flown at a high wingloading, and/or if the pilot (who presumably put some or all of the 16 jumps on the reserve) complained of a poor flare, I would SUGGEST that it be sent for a permeability test and take the opportunity to educate the jumper on the issues involved. I believe the permeability test focuses on the top skin, so having a ZP topskin would negate the need for a check.As far as the stains, I would certainly check the affected areas for sufficient strength. I generally use the "thumb" test, but if it was severe, I might actually get out the fabric pliers and scale.I never really fully understood the term "riggers discretion" until I got into rigging;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stimpy 0 #28 April 16, 2002 i have a bad feeling this rumour was started by unscrupulous people who want to be able to sell another reserve canopy to anyone who might have a reserve older than 6 years old. In some parts of the world people don't know better and they believe what they are told.As people have rightly pointed out, the best and most accurate information is likely to come from the manufacturer and they should be asked if you have doubts or questions.Don't believe everything that some people tell you - check it out from the correct sources.rgds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggermick 7 #29 April 16, 2002 When it comes to the air worthiness of a reserve canopy (or complete system), the rigger who is certifying it for use during the next 120 days is the final word. No if's and's or but's. He or She alone takes sole responsbility for the air worthiness decision. I have an Amigo 134 reserve with over 75 jumps on it that I still use as a functioning reserve. All of the jumps made on it were by me during drop testing of the Reflex harness/ container system. I know that canopy so well and how quickly it will deploy at any speed I wouldn't trade it for anything. So to answer the question of "when does a reserve expire?" When a certified rigger says "I'm not packing that because......". As Rob said unless it's being held together with duct tape and knots in the lines you can pretty much always find someone to pack it. Choose riggers carefully.Mick Cottle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
polarbear 1 #30 April 16, 2002 It is also the rigger's responsibility to pack it according to manufacturer's instructions. THAT IS IN THE FAA REGULATIONS. There are no if's, and's or but's about that. If the manufacturer's instructions specify a service life, then the law says it must be followed. If there is no specified service life, the rigger gets to decide.There is such a thing as riggers discretion, but it does have boundaries. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggermick 7 #31 April 16, 2002 You are of course correct. Amigo (and some others) reserves have no quantifed service life stated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
docrw 0 #32 April 13, 2004 I've resently bought some used gear, and was told it had a fresh repack but the seal and thread look odd. Can someone tell me what the seal should look like and why some have letters and numbers and this one only has 3 letters. How are these numbers given out by the FAA? Is there a list of riggers that can be checked using the riggers number? Thanks in advance! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #33 April 13, 2004 What George Gallowy says does not carry force of law. What Precision's manual does. FAA Part 65.129. The manual says one jump. More than that and it can not be packed as a reserve. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #34 April 13, 2004 Not all required a different slider, which ones do. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #35 April 13, 2004 QuoteI've resently bought some used gear, and was told it had a fresh repack but the seal and thread look odd. Can someone tell me what the seal should look like and why some have letters and numbers and this one only has 3 letters. How are these numbers given out by the FAA? Is there a list of riggers that can be checked using the riggers number? Thanks in advance! You'd be wise to just pay for a new repack...I've seen some pretty scary stuff bought "used" with a "new" repack. If it was me or someone I knew there isn't a chance I'd jump it with out knowing the rigger personaly. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #36 April 13, 2004 Riggers are issued 3 letters for their seals and the numbers on the data card are their certificate number. I've seen all sorts of things on the backside of the seals... certificate numbers, Skull and Crossbones, a happy face... lots of things. All that is required is the 3 letters of their seal.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #37 April 13, 2004 A riggers seal symbol can be a combination of letter and numbers not just letters. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #38 April 13, 2004 QuoteNot all required a different slider, which ones do. Sparky >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only the first production run of Raven As (circa 1984) sometimes opened slowly, so the factory recommended installing a bikini slider to speed up openings. Since the bikini slider was missing two triangles of fabric - almost half its area - it tended to open quicker. When a rigger installed a bikini slider he was supposed to write a big, ugly letter "B" on the orange warning label. Bikini sliders were not mandatory, but I since the service bulletin was published, I have only repacked ONE Raven A without the update. That Raven A belonged to a freefall photographer, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #39 April 13, 2004 Thanks Rob, there are some people that are not aware of this. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #40 April 13, 2004 QuoteWhat George Gallowy says does not carry force of law. What Precision's manual does. FAA Part 65.129. The manual says one jump. More than that and it can not be packed as a reserve. Sparky How does a rigger determine if a Precision reserve has been used as a main for more than one jump? Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #41 April 13, 2004 It would be hard to tell. You could check the bridle attachment point, toggles and brake lines, but it would be a guess. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parafredo 0 #42 April 13, 2004 I would say that if you have any doubt about the age of reserve canopy or how many times it should be out,sub-terminal or terminal speed,the manufacturer should approve it to be airworthy.That meens the rigger should contact the manufacturer and discuss this issue or any concerns with this issue.Personally,I refuse to repack a Tempo reserve because this reserve came out eleven times and it was full of sand deposit everywhere,even on the lines.I told the owner to send his reserve for a complete check to the company . Main thing is,in a doubt,do not do it and make sure when you decide to pack it,your seal will be on for 120 days. There is no excuses not to communicate or getting informations at this century....phone ,fax,internet and now,cellular with camera!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #43 April 14, 2004 This is interesting, I asked the same question to a rigger a couple of weeks ago. Im jumping with a Strong reserve mfg. in 1986 and was getting concerned. It has no know rides and was told if it is in good condition he would pack it with now worries."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brits17 0 #44 April 14, 2004 QuoteHow are these numbers given out by the FAA? Is there a list of riggers that can be checked using the riggers number? As far as I know, each DPRE is given a set of seal symbols to issue. http://registry.faa.gov/amquery.asp is where you can find out who has an FAA license. Just need a first and last name. _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
