lazerq3 0 #1 April 17, 2002 A while ago there was some posts about Synergy and HMA lines and how they where prone to breaking. Well I have a friend at our DZ that had just bought one Brand new, Synergy 210 loaded at 1.19 to 1....... Well 17 jumps later on his chute and SNAP....... Steering line broke on opening!!Not trying to spark any good or bad vibes with anyone....just stating some facts that occoured!!jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #2 April 17, 2002 well thats not good. I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engovatov 0 #3 April 17, 2002 > well thats not good. Why ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #4 April 17, 2002 Makes ya' want to run right out there and get that fx modified. I sure hate to hear that.... Hope people don't start getting hurt, and I also hate to see any more bad juju for G.G. Peace~LindseyEve was framed!http://home.earthlink.net/~linzwalley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #5 April 17, 2002 i pray your just drunk and joking with me.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #6 April 17, 2002 Not getting my FX modified...$400....for line trim change on a parachute that as per recent threads they claim does have a different planform and airfoil than an Xaos and has apparently not been extensively tested as such. PAHI'll just get my Vectran changed when it looks like it is worn. and I will keep my riser pressure and just do more pullupsramon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #7 April 17, 2002 Not getting my FX modified...$400....for line trim change on a parachute that as per recent threads they claim does have a different planform and airfoil than an Xaos and has apparently not been extensively tested as such. PAHI'll just get my Vectran changed when it looks like it is worn. and I will keep my riser pressure and just do more pullupsramon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prost 0 #8 April 17, 2002 They are no changing the line trim if i remember correctly. Chris could you comment on this? As far as lines snapping, if you don't pack correctly it is easy to snap a line. I have seen many vectran (and every other line for that matter) lines snap with not a lot of jumps on them. The person always claims they packed it the same way they always do but that is not usaully the truth. A properly packed parachute will not produce as much force as a hook turn under a heavily loaded canopy. Many high performance canopies have went through hundreds of jumps under these stresses with no problem. I am tired of the witch hunt mentality that seems to be developing lately. It doesn't do anyone any good.William Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RozeAY 0 #9 April 17, 2002 One of my teammates jumps a Synergy 170. A few weeks ago he had a broken steering line and broken C line on opening. Fun stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GroundZero 0 #10 April 17, 2002 WOAA! Easy all you "chicken littles".... the sky ain't falling. I am aware of 2 breaklines that have broken on Synergies, both on opening, and it is both of these canopies that are listed above. These are the same canopies that were listed in the other threads, each time we read a new thread, it sounds like a widespread problem ... kinda something like this: "I read about an airliner that crashed in New York area today because of a rudder problem. Then at lunch, I heard a report about an Airbus A-300 or 320 or something that went in in the U.S. about the same time, also with a rudder problem. Then when I watched the news this evening another one crashed with a rudder problem... this one was an American Airlines. Wow that's 3 today alone!" Not only will I quit flying, I'm moving into a cave 'cause they're gonna be coming down everywhere!RozeAY, After looking at your teammates canopy, we found 4 other c-lines with burns at the same point. These lineburns were caused by friction from the other lines... one c-line burned and broke. This is a malfunction that is usually attributed to a deployment anomoly (possibly through packing.) Experience on HMA line is extensive. Before we began working with the line, a German company, Profile Research, built over 700 canopies using this line. Most are in Europe, many are in other countries around the world. This canopy is currently being marketted as the "Nitro". You may have heard of the canopy as Jalepeno, another version of the same canopy. We are building the same canopy under license as the Nitron. First production canopies (from Precision) with HMA line were delivered in June of 2001. We jumped the canopies with HMA in house for over a year prior to delivering the first customer canopy. I can say confidently that HMA line has hundreds of thousands of jumps, (perhaps one million + jumps). What to expect from HMA line... We use different strength lines in different locations on the canopy. Most of the suspension lines are 160 kg. The outboard suspension lines and upper control lines are 200 kg. and the lower control lines are 430 kg. strength. In this configuration, we have complete linesets last over 1000 jumps. We have also see individual line breaks occur before 1000 jumps. I have experienced two broken lines on my Xaos27-84 at about 50ish jumps (look at my packing and you'll understand that!)... One advantage that may be overlooked is that a broken "continuous" line is not as significant as a broken cascaded line... yes I landed my Xaos with those broken lines.HMA line use on skydiving canopies is well tested. The results are very positive and noticable. Hope you feel a bit more comfortable with this fabulous TINY line. It offers many advantages over other lines, test drive a canopy with HMA and see what it's all about...Chris MartinPrecision Aerodynamics, Inc.423-949-4688chris@precision.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #11 April 17, 2002 So why was HMA banned from use in paragliders in Germany??I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engovatov 0 #12 April 17, 2002 >So why was HMA banned from use in paragliders in Germany??Maybe UV stability - very different requirements for hundreds of hours in the sun.And who said it was banned - do not listen everything that was said.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GroundZero 0 #13 April 18, 2002 Viking,HMA, I hear through this forum, was banned from use on paragliders in Germany, (I do not know this to be true, only stated here on this forum), because of UV considerations. The line is well tested in skydiving applications and has an excellent history. ... why don't we use braided stainless steel cable for suspension lines, after all that is used for control cables in aircraft. Look at the advantages this would offer! We would never break a line and would have virtually indefinite life linesets. I like your thinking... Everyone that has a significant number of jumps has experienced a broken line. I have seen broken Dacron, Kevlar, Spectra, Vectran and also HMA. (And some others we have tested and decided not to use.)HMA is an excellent fibre for use in this application.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Watcher 0 #14 April 18, 2002 I like it on my Nitron 120, 170 jumps on it so far since decemeber. Lines still look brand new execpt the edge of the tacking on the finger traps on a few different lines have come undone. But the finger trap is so small i dont really see it as an issue. I am quite happy with my lines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
